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Chat Page News
Friday 24th March 2017

Please bookmark http://chat.palsite.com/chat_page.py as the new URL.

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Jon Pierre
Tuesday 3rd November 2015
2:07 pm U.K.

jpie@yahoo.com

The Palsites members constant argumentative comments and attempts at goading me into personal attacks are being observed and taken under consideration.

Nobody is saying anything about making money. Don't know where that came from.

The more I try to help folks here, the more anger is directed at me.

Gabriel,(his new name) never even told Cooper where he could obtain replacement hall sensors...I did.

Again, stop the anger and name calling and try to help people with correct, not verbose and too technical suggestions.

Thank you.

K lambert
Tuesday 3rd November 2015
2:02 pm U.K.

kn2000@talktalk.net

Betaphiles:

Can I politely suggest you ignore ALL posts by Jon Pierre.

It would seem his ultimate aim has been to degenerate all other genuine contributors to this site (read his posts).Some have been here many years and have the same amount in experience.

Also this site is primarily for the help and advice to Beta enthusiasts (Mainly with the PAL system) but others overseas with the NTSC seem to want help too.Trouble being those models are different from PAL in a variety of ways so help here is limited in that respect.

Being helpful and civil is one thing but slaying others technical comments,accusing other of being angry and the ultimate condemning of a particular manufacturer is not.

Ask the hundreds who use said manufacturers machines and see what answers you get back.

I also feel you are if not connected to Steve that you are one and the same.

I note the 'thankyou' at the end of your posts. Something they also did and what knowone else does.

It seems those based in the US are determined to stir thing up here for whatever reason.

I also don't really care how this post affects my own standing here.

Most can see who's at fault.

Time to stop this nonsense.Or remove those who are obviously here to annoy others.

I've said all I've got to say.

I've better things to do than waste my time dealing with disruptive, I am mightier than though, individuals.

Gabriel
Tuesday 3rd November 2015
1:58 pm U.K.

pleasenotreply@gmail.com

What kind of troll are you telling me I am "manipulative"? Are you suggesting I try to make a penny on this site? Come on, don't make me laugh.

Keep giving your advice with such arrogance, making friends wherever you post. Also enjoy your fantastic Sony NTSC machines my friend.

Jon Pierre
Tuesday 3rd November 2015
1:36 pm U.K.

jpie@yahoo.com

Cooper,

In my vast experience, the fact that you mentioned the motor "shuddered" is proof enough that one or both of the hall sensors failed. I've seen this many, many times and the fix is always the sensors. Period.

I.C. links failing would cause no shudder effect, so that suggestion is absurd.

Lots of bad info on this site as well as angry, manipulative "technicians". I use that word guardedly.

Let me re-state my original and correct fix:

"Kevin was correct in the first sentence of his first reply to your question.

Everything else that was written by him and others are superfluous.

You need to replace both hall sensors on the reel pc board and you will be fine.

Only problem is, the hall sensors are not available as replacement parts.

What I would do is purchase any cheap Sanyo (i.e. 5150, 4400 etc.) and take apart the capstan motor. There you will find 3 hall sensors that you can use to make your repair. Save the extra one for the head motor if it becomes necessary to replace it at a later date. Sanyos are good for that purpose, but never purchase one for archiving your video tapes.

All the best, thank you."

K lambert
Tuesday 3rd November 2015
12:23 pm U.K.

kn2000@talktalk.net

Sanyo vcr's are perfect for archiving video tapes to DVD or a PC.

Please disregard any comments to the contrary from a disgruntled Sony fanatic.

.thankyou.

pleasenotreply@gmail.com
Tuesday 3rd November 2015
12:21 pm U.K.

Gabriel

Superfluous? Are you 100% sure the cause of that failure are the Hall effect sensors? It is much better tracking the issue and isolate the failed component before making assumptions. Last time I saw a similar failure was caused by an IC link (PS fuse) so many factors are involved on these machines.

On the other hand, Sanyo betas are worth having machines, infinitely more reliable than Sonys. So, I don't see the point of using them as scrap for spares.

Jon Pierre
Tuesday 3rd November 2015
11:16 am U.K.

jpie@yahoo.com

Cooper,

Kevin was correct in the first sentence of his first reply to your question.

Everything else that was written by him and others are superfluous.

You need to replace both hall sensors on the reel pc board and you will be fine.

Only problem is, the hall sensors are not available as replacement parts.

What I would do is purchase any cheap Sanyo (i.e. 5150, 4400 etc.) and take apart the capstan motor. There you will find 3 hall sensors that you can use to make your repair. Save the extra one for the head motor if it becomes necessary to replace it at a later date. Sanyos are good for that purpose, but never purchase one for archiving your video tapes.

All the best, thank you.

pleasenotreply@gmail.com
Tuesday 3rd November 2015
8:50 am U.K.

Gabriel

Cooper,

In the previous post, I meant the configuration should be as follows:

Reel table connector pin Value (VDC)

1 -------------------------> 0V (Ground)

2 -------------------------> +12V

3 -------------------------> 0V (Ground)

4 -------------------------> +5V (thru the regulator or the +5V rail from the mentioned PC power supply)

Caution: All this should be performed with this assembly REMOVED/DISCONNECTED from the VCR. Otherwise, there is risk of short circuiting the servo board.

pleasenotreply@gmail.com
Tuesday 3rd November 2015
7:30 am U.K.

Gabriel

Cooper,

Regarding your issue with the reel motor, and according to Kev, first suspect from the two Hall effect sensors behind the rotor. I also remember that board having two or three capacitors which are easy to change. After that, I would check the transistors (6 x 2SD992) for open or leak. Sony betas are known for having problems with transistors.

Finally, if all six transistors are OK, last thing to "culprit" is the switch IC labeled as "877". I have not seen many of these failing but chances are still there.

It is also quite easy to check the whole motor board with the help of a 12V PSU. It has four terminals "1-2-3-4". First, try to identify the + / - terminals as follows: positive terminal 2 goes towards IC pin #8 and negative terminal 3 goes towards IC pin #9. Having these two identified, last thing to do is connecting connector terminal 1 to ground and terminal 4 to +5VDC (if your psu does not have an independent 5V output, you can perform this with a 7805 regulator). However, it is quite practical trying this with a computer power supply :-). Rotor should start to rotate if everything is OK.

Regards,

Gabriel

K lambert
Monday 2nd November 2015
11:07 pm U.K.

kn2000@talktalk.net

Cooper:

My apologies I was thinking about the capstan motor.

................Kevin

K lambert
Monday 2nd November 2015
9:11 pm U.K.

kn2000@talktalk.net

Cooper;

Whilst I've never come across that issue it does sound like you may have one failed hall effect sensor.

This is very common on the Sony's head drum down to glue that get's conductive over time.

The reel motor has three sensors.

I would've suspected towards a worn bearing but if you say the clearance is fine then that's all that's left. Especially since you describe the shudder. A sign that current is getting through.

If the hall effect sensor fails to the head drum and you try to turn the head disc from the top whilst the PLAY light is on you will feel resistance until the play light goes off.If it's not the sensor then the disc spins freely regardless.

Since you have some aspect of motion to the reel motor I would look there. Sadly you will have to find good used ones if it is the case.

Let us know.....................Kev

cooper
Monday 2nd November 2015
7:47 pm U.K.

derekcooper@hotmail.com

Basically I have no reel rotation FF/F/REW. I do have a video clip that I would like to post which clearly shows the fault (can I post this somewhere, somehow?). I checked clearance as per reel motor mod - which is fine - no sign of rubbing on coils. The motor does not spin on pressing any of the buttons unless assisted manually - sometimes if the rotor is in a specific position it will spin. In other positions the rotor does "shudder" but not spin - indicating that an induced magnetic field is present. Are there any further tests/checks that I could perform? I checked the induction coils with a multimeter and for what i know they seem fine.

K lambert
Monday 2nd November 2015
9:05 am U.K.

kn2000@talktalk.net

Cooper:

Need to know what the issues are first my friend.

Post away.............Kev

Cooper
Monday 2nd November 2015
12:05 am U.K.

derekcooper@hotmail.com

Hi, Just been given a Sony SL-HF100 that had been stored for many years. Powered it up but have a slight problem with it. Have already checked this site Q&A's to see if issue covered - but not. Is this the place to ask technical questions? If so I will post more details, if not is there a technical resource site that you know of that could possibly help?

Jon Pierre
Sunday 1st November 2015
11:03 pm U.K.

jpie@yahoo.com

I have contacted Martin.

The Australian member's constant argumentative comments and attempts at goading me into personal attacks are being observed and taken under consideration.

They do not affect me, but we believe they denigrate the integrity of the Palsite

To continue my dissertation on video tape:

Betacam tapes are OXIDE based FerroCobalt doped tape. Betacam-SP tapes are

Metal Particle Tapes, not needed for SuperBeta or SHB-B1s at all, but work

fine if used for such, if you can afford it. Betacam-SP tapes are NOT

dangerous or injurious to SuperBeta VCRs at all. In fact they run ever

smoother with less wear than Oxide Tapes, by far , as has long been shown in

laboratory tests. Where does such Wrongful misinformation get started?

Chromium Dioxide tape when introduced to the audio and video world in 1970 was

also "rumored" FALSELY, to be injurious and damaging to standard tape heads

in older recorders. This was untrue also, as Dupont, who "invented" Chrome

tape, proved that they ran, smoother, and were LESS wearing to heads than

standard Oxide tapes. Why do people persist in believing that every NEW

advancement in Tape Technology is detrimental to previous technology heads?

I have a PhD in Clinical Psychology, and yet this "logic" or "lack of it"

eludes me totally, when it comes to man's stupidity!The only "TRUTH" that

can be demonstrated as real is that Americans universally have always,

historically, made the worst possible choice of technology, when given a

choice.The American dislike and abandonment of BETA, is not the only mistake

we have made, historically, in superior technology. In 1933 RCA-Victor Corp.

offered the Vinyl LP Record with Wide Band High Fidelity Sound to the public

in Listening Tests, at the Chicago Worlds Fair of 1933-34, where average Fair

Visitors were allowed to compare the sound quality in A-B tests with the

standard noisy shellac narrow band 78 RPM standard records of that time

period. By an overwhelming majority, the American Public chose the narrow

band noisy 78 RPM shellac records as their preference over the quiet running

Vinyl wide band HiFi LP Record !The LP was then given to the Radio

Networks who appreciated it superior quality and used it for Radio Broadcast

Transcription Recording, much the same as the American Public's rejection of

BETA allowed the TV Broadcast Industry to adopt BETA as the STANDARD of

Broadcast Recording in today's era.The same is true for the public's

rejection of Sony MiniDisc and DAT as a quality replacement for the 35 year

old standard audio cassette tape, and yet the Broadcast Radio & Recording

World took it and used it as their in field Recording Standard. It amazes me

how absolutely ignorant the choices of the American Public is HIS

K lambert
Sunday 1st November 2015
9:58 pm U.K.

kn2000@talktalk.net

Interesting comments you make there.....

I do agree that even the Beta tapes I have from the late seventies still play really well and all that talk about tape deterioration after so many years ,was nothing more than scare tactics to get you to buy the latest digital disc technology.

As for this tape 'ripping out to load' on Sanyo models.I seem to remember the Sony C5, 7 and C6 all utilised the same, if not VERY similar loading system and all the Sanyo models I own and have used a lot have never done any damage by stretching or the like by loading in this way.Sanyo decided to do this to extend the head/drum life and overcome these issues and judging by the ones I've seen it works pretty darn well.

Damage caused by being un serviced or by faulty/worn components yes but that is usually when trying to put the tape back in.

Also you could say ( and I still do) that Sony's always laced feature is even more detrimental (if quicker between modes) to tape wear and tear (and all heads) in the fast wind modes.Even more so than VHS as the Beta tape path is very tortuous.I'm sure you have come across the tape bumping syndrome when the upper drum has excessive friction causing Sony to make these out of a different alloy.

....

Jon Pierre
Sunday 1st November 2015
5:51 pm U.K.

jpie@yahoo.com

Let's talk video tape, which are all the same for NTSC and PAL.

I recently have had to get out some 20 to 25 year old recorded Beta Tapes

that were recorded for Broadcast at Standard Bl speed on industrial Sony

Betamax video recorders and edit them all together for a Historical

documentary I am doing for Broadcast locally. With all the talk of Video

Tape not holding up much past 10 to 15 years, unless extraordinary storage

measures are used, let me tell you my personal experience.

These 20 to 25 year old multiple brands of Beta Video Tape including the

brands of; Sony, 3M Scotch, Laser, and Maxell standard Betamax Tape bought

off the shelves of ordinary department stores at the time they were new, were

stored in all the WRONG ways, in ordinary room temperature, varying humidity

levels, not placed vertically as they should be, and yet every one of them

played back as well as if they had just been recorded freshly today the first

time. The sound, color, and picture were excellent, with no drop outs or

tape sticking or lubricant loss noted, and the picture quality of the old

original Bl Mono Color recordings done with Studio Cameras and Industrial

Sony Bl only Betamax video recorders was sharp and clean as can be without a

trace of aging, even across a quarter of a century of improper storage! So

don't worry about loss of image or sound quality or deteriorating tape or

oxide over that period of years as I own some Video Tape on open reel that is

30 years old that still plays fine too and with the worst possible storage

conditions as well. And remember these are samples of multiple brands of

Beta Tape including the low price "cheapo" brand of LASER Betamax Tape as

well, all of which performed like new regardless of brand after all these

years of improper storage. So your Betamax Video tapes you have should play

back equally as well 25 years from now, regardless of brand, also as long as

you have a working Betamax to play them on in the year 2025 and as long as

you do you can transfer them all to Sony Digital Video Tape at that future

date with confidence for showing during the rest of this Century and for

generations to come !!!However, if you use a SANYO model to view your tapes, you should be mindful that they virtually RIP the tape out of the cassette at a fast rate of speed. I needn't tell you of how dangerous that can be. Thank you.

K lambert
Sunday 1st November 2015
5:43 pm U.K.

kn2000@talktalk.net

Phil:

The sad thing is I've seen this quite a few times and the job made a lot worse and more time consuming.

One area that should never be touched unless absolutely necessary are the tape guides. Some it seems think by 'loosening them up' it will make the tape play better, when the issue is down to worn rubber components or issues with the reel drive motor.

These guides are factory set under strict tolerances and should never be moved unless ,as a last resort, maybe one is very slightly out of position. Which is extremely rare.

My advice is if your not sure leave well alone or get some good advice first.

There are also some really good vcr repair sites that can help in this area too. Admittedly these are getting thin on the ground but some still out there. Including this one. ALL free of course.

..Kev

Philip McKeown
Sunday 1st November 2015
5:13 pm U.K.

philip_mckeown@yahoo.co.uk

As Kev said, when problems arise with a Beta (or any machine containing electronics) it is prudent to seek expert advice first rather than attempting ANYTHING, otherwise chances are that a simple fault could be made much worse AND end up being either more expensive and time-consuming to correct, or result in irreparable damage.

Murray Walker summed this up beautifully along the lines of, those that can, DO, and those that can't, talk about it. I'm definitely only the latter, and even then it's still usually a load of {insert word here}!

K lambert
Sunday 1st November 2015
1:44 pm U.K.

kn2000@talktalk.net

My mistake,you are in the US not Australia so that leaves 'Mr Betamax', and I seem to remember the general put downs of Sanyo Beta's there too.

Also if you're not 'in it for the money' you'd give you vcr's away.

I don't think the 'if you've got a brain you can do a repair' comment will go down well with many either. Quite insulting to those who cannot or are not willing to attempt such things.

I must say your first post isn't exactly a good way to introduce yourself and you shouldn't listen to other misguided individuals fabrications towards other genuine posters here either.

Enjoy your day...........Thankyou.

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