Hi Kevin

If I understand this correctly, you have managed to find in your own collection all four belts I need. That's wonderful news! Might I suggest you drop me a line at braemkoen (@) hotmail . com with the necessary payment details and I'll look into it straight away. Thanks a lot.

I am in Belgium - someone's got to do it! Hope that's not a problem? In any case, this means I'll need your IBAN details...

Jeff: thanks for your suggestion. Another one to bookmark, but in this instance I'd like to go with Kevin's offer - it would be a bit rude not to after the effort he has put into this!

Lewis: I'd almost say: send those tapes to me... but postage costs would be considerable and truth be told you'll get more money from them on ebay. Don't expect a fortune, but there's a small market for such tapes, it's worth your while listing them.

Koen:

Have also found a belt size perfect for belt 2.

Jeffoldbean:Is that guy you list in the US?

I am assuming Koen is in the UK?

I found a couple of places in the US who sell belt's and idler tyres have stopped shipping overseas.

Quite annoying that.

.Kev

Hello i have just dug out 78 betamax tapes from my fathers house they are all blanks which have classic retro tv programmes and films on... alas the betamax recorder has long gone but is these tapes worth me trying to sell as no good for myself... regards Lewis

For Koen.

Try this Guy:-

http://www.russellind.com/EVG/main.htm

I have got belts and the odd Idler from him.

He is quick and reliable.

Just Email him with your requirements.

He will reply with the cost.

Good Luck.

jeffoldbean.

Koen:

So far I have found belt's 1,3&5 new. Albeit a bit smaller diameter wise which is good as those originals are more than likely stretched.

The thicknesses are within 0.5mm which is also good.

I have some old stock new belt's and am hoping your other requirements are in these.

Will keep you posted.

I will make a few set's up after this so if anyone else needs them.......

...........Kev

Koen:

I will check what I have and my other sources too.It may be an idea to collect a few set's for this model as it seems to pop up regularly now too.

.Kev

Here we are again with the quest to find belts for a Sanyo 9300. After some thinking, the easiest way I could think of to measure belts was to start by carefully covering the inside with sticky tape and go from there. Whatever works! Anyway, after some tinkering and calculating, this is what I have come up with.

Belt 1

Square

Diameter 46,31 mm

Thickness 1.8 mm

Belt 2

Square

Diameter 120,96 mm

Thickness 2 mm

Belt 3

Flat

Diameter 151,52 mm

Thickness 0.7 mm

Width 7 mm

Belt 4

Flat

Diameter 173,48 mm

Thickness 0.75 mm

Width 8 mm

These are the actual dimensions of the old belts; I have not subtracted anything to take into account new belts should be somewhat shorter because I'm unsure by how much that should be - a figure of 5 mm has been quoted here... Please note all belts still fit reasonably well around whatever parts they go - but especially the third and fourth belt are fairly slack and probably don't have much pulling power anymore...

I have been advised to contact the people behind chsinteractive.co.uk and irwinelectronics.co.uk. However, both have replied they no longer sell what I'm after.

I've looked at the belt sets listed by chsinteractive, but the universal ones don't fit and where they are selling sets for specific models they don't usually detail the dimensions.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Koen

Koen:

Remember too to allow around 5mm less to accommodate belt stretching.

I have also started to measure any belt's I have to change or even check on other models I come across to make sure I always have those needed.

.Kev

Noel

Thanks for your remarks concerning the missing piece of rubber. Sounds like there's an awful lot that can go wrong because of something so seemingly insignificant to a novice like myself.

I have put something together to replace what's missing. Just to be sure, I inserted a tape and did some quick rewind/FF/play tests. Exactly the same as before. Doesn't matter, at least the tinkering I did today will hopefully make sure things won't go wrong in the way you described.

(As to the Sanyo - still on stand by to start looking for stuff that could help me to determine the belt diameters.)

Keon,

Re you C9 post to the video about the spring. I noticed on the top of the loading mechanism you are missing the left black rubber cover off the left shinny lock pin.

Without this the tape case does not necessarily deflect the locking clip enough yet the right one would release. This skews the tape load mechanism sideways (off square) putting a strain on the gears and motors. When this happens something mechanical may give or the motor stall and then the electronics may suffer current overload with heat taking out a transistor or two. In bad cases the board actually catches fire around that area of the bottom SS11 board. Difficult to fix because you now have electrical and mechanical issues.

regards Noel

Kevin,

Re the belts turning to black goo you are right. The toshiba capstan belts for example.

cheers Noel

for kevin

thanks for help! but it still stucks; is there maybe another way to get release the cassette

greetings

peter

Peter:

Yet another good reason to avoid those 'head scourers' at all costs.

You will have to open the machine up and gently reverse the loading mechanism by turning the main gear to the top right so that the two loading arms retract in.

You will have a loop left out though as doing this the reel spool doesn't take up the slack.

Good luck and AVOID using ANY 'so called' head cleaning tape.

......Kevin

Peter:

yet another good reason to avoid those 'head scourers' at al costs.

You will have to open the machine up and gently reverse the loading mechanism my turning the main gear to the top right so that the two loading arms retract in.

You will have a loop left out though as doing this the reel doesn't take up the slack.

Good luck and AVOID using ANY 'so called' head cleaning tape.

......Kevin

Koen:

Not a problem, take your time.

.....Kev

Hi Kevin

Thanks for your input. I'll go hunting circular objects to determine the exact diameter. This is likely to take a few days, hope to be back soon!

hello,

I have a old portable sony betamax sl-f1e with a problem with the ejection of an cleaning tape.

I tried The cleaning tape "allsop 3" for beta in the machine for cleaning the heads but I cannot eject him anymore.

I tried several possibilities to free the tape but without success

maybe somebody has a tip or can help me

Thanks!

Peter

Koen:

Oh and inner belt diameter dimensions in mm please.

..Kev

Koen:

Not a problem my friend that's what we are here for ,keeping these classic vcr's in perfect shape.

I could investigate the belt's but I would need the inner diameter and belt type (flat ,square) and thickness.I believe you have given some of those measurements.

A magnifying glass helps to get those reading very accurate and also a ruler.Try to get the belt as circular as you can.That's how I've always achieved it and the new belt's you get work extremely well.

As for the slight dip in the rubber I would try and get the whole outer part as level as possible ,which will mean lightly abrading the higher parts down.

I have seen that on one or two of those.

Also any small wheel or part that guides the loading ring around, a very tiny drop of oil to those too ,helps a lot. Just make sure you keep well away from any part that the tapes make contact with.

......Kevin

(Post #2)

Apart from the more complicated things described above, I also gave the recorder a good spring clean. Some black plastic bits turned out to be white, covered in dust and belt debris! From VHS experience I was already familiar with the dangers of cotton swabs around the heam drum, but it's certainly good advice, so thanks anyway. :-)

Pulley grooves have been cleaned, but for the time being I have limited myself to wet cotton swabs (some were completely covered in 'belt dust'). They look reasonably clean now but I'm hoping to take up the advice to give them a further clean with alcohol if and when I can get new belts. Any advice on where to source them? Turns out there's another enthusiast with the same model not living far away from me, so that's two of us looking for these belts. :-)

Pulley shafts and reel drive bearings have not been oiled for the time being as I could not easily get to them. Again, something to look into more closely later on. Must say all moving bits I could get my hands on turned quite well – they may certainly benefit from a bit of oil after 37 years, but it's not as if they can hardly move at the moment.

Robber on idler, capstan and some nondescript tape guidance thingies looks nicely matt – generally OK, apart from the abovementioned dent in the idler rubber.

Spent a lot of time on the Sanyo, so hoping to take another look at the Sony one of these days. For that, too, thanks for your comments.

(Post #1)

Hi Kevin

Thanks for the time you've taken to write such an extensive reply. Much appreciated!

I spent some time today working on the Sanyo 9300.

Turns out the heavy-going loading mechanism must have been caused by something, somewhere, getting confused following yesterday's unlacing problems, which ended with me using some force to get the tape out. Playing around a bit with 'on'/stand by and ejecting a few times solved this particular problem.

I noticed there's a small dent in the rubber idler that drives (or rather, should drive) the take-up reel. Hardly surprising, considering this idler is pushed against the reel all the time (even when the machine is turned off, it seems). God knows for how many years that bit of rubber had been making contact with the reel. Is this cause for concern? The idler is definitely slipping quite often, but when it does turn it rolls along nicely when the flattened surface passes against the take-up plastic.

I have taken out, inspected and measured all four belts I could see. I put the belts against a ruler and kept them flat with a screwdriver at either side, so actual length if you'd cut them would be twice as long, plus a little bit to allow for the circle around the screwdriver tips. Details as follows:

275 x 8 mm (flat) (=10,8 x 0,31”)

241 x 7 mm (flat) (=9,49 x 0,28”)

196 x 2 mm (square) (=7,72 x 0,08”)

76 x 1,8 mm (square) (=2,99 x 0,07”)

One of the square belts tends to stay in a certain 'ingrained' shape when taken out, the others don't. All of them are a bit 'weak' when mounted in the machine, and all of them have tiny cracks on the side(s) where they made contact with the mechanism. As to your other points, the belts are not sticky and don't give the impression you could stretch them indefinitely.

When the belts had been put back (the flat ones inside out, thought that just might help...), rewind was still a no-no (rewinding just enough to show the belt had at least been reassembled in the right way), FF seemed weaker than it had been and the take-up reel didn't move at all in play mode, allowing a few inches of tape to walk away before the machine stops playback. By the way, I suspect that's what caused yesterday's eject troubles: the tape is not where it should be, and this apparently 'confuses' the electronics.

Koen

Looking at the very short Youtube clip for the C9 the click you are hearing is the activating briefly of the pinch roller/back tension solenoid and then it deactivates again.

Seeing as the C9 is directly motor drive for each tape spool for the trick slo mo effects,this area may need checking out.it could also be the tape down inside switch is not aligned/damaged or the tape loading metal bar that actuates a switch is slightly bent.Hard to say without seeing the inside better.

....Kevin

Koen:

As for the Sony C9es.

Yes I too when first seeing one thought that spring/wire,lever looked like a hash job, but then seeing other models realised it was how this was designed by Sony.

Has your model got two small white plastic gears at the top of each side of the cassette mechanism or are they silver in colour?

The C9 is a great piece of kit IF it's not got any of the common issues with that model.

Your slow or no FF and REW could be upper drum wear,(it usually pulses and bumps when trying if this is so).If it doesn't play or only tries after two to three seconds it's probably the head drum hall effect sensor.

If the cassette insertion light flashes when trying to load a tape or after it's gone inside then your have one or more misaligned /faulty switches.

I also agree the Sanyo beta was made like a tank. Extremley durable (if the 9300 was basic) but nevertheless still holding up well now. Their only achilies heel, any rubber drive component after time. If you go by what I stated in my other post it should help you out somewhat.

Go from there. If that does not help then lever's switches or not very commonly electronic issues may be responsible.

PSU modules ,especially in the later Sony's should always be checked for bad high ESR caps.

This causes many issues with them too. If left for long enough will wipe out fusible resistors and transistors too.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

.Kevin

Hi Koen:

Having worked on most of these beta's for quite some time now and seeing the common issues arise again and again, there are things I can suggest to many of the novices who try to resurrect there non functioning ones.

Firstly with ANY vcr when looking inside it remove and clean any dust debris that is usually inside , especially with the top loaders.AVOID the huge silver drum especially the slot around the middle as this is where the extremely fragile ferrite head tips are located.Do NOT use cotton buds around this part either.

Secondly ANY belt's you see are 95% of the time usually in a poor state.One way to check is remove them one at a time(taking note where they go as some of the earlier models have more than one belt attached to one pulley).Look at the belt does the inner part look cracked if you turn it inside out?Does it stay the same shape and seem harder and not very flexible?if you pull on it gently does it seem to want to stretch forever and takes ages to go back to it's usual size? Is it like melted tar and stuck all over the pulley?

If the answer to any of the questions is yes then you WILL have to replace them.

The pulley grooves also benefit from a good clean with isopropyl alchohol and very lightly abraded to give the new belt a good grip.

The shaft the pulleys spin on benefit greatly from a TINY drop of oil and to the base of the spool bearings.

If there is a rubber idler tyre for either the tape drive or tape spool edge check this rubber out like the belt's .It should a have a matt texture (not shiny, hard or cracked, as you will need to replace them ,NOT with 'o' rings though) and if the rubber is still flexible benefits from light abrasive all around keeping it moving as you do to avoid and flat spots.A in eraser or 120 grit aluminium oxide paper does nicely there.Don't rub too much off though ,just enough to make the tyre surface matt and grippy.

The reel drive bearings on the Sanyo's benefit with a tiny drop of oil too turning the motor pulley left to right as you do this.

Once you have done all this then you should be able to try it out and see IF these areas were causing your issues.

There are other things that can inflict said vcr's ,usually by owners using force when things don't go right and breaking hatch and cassette insertion mechanisms too,but the things I have listed should be a good place to start.

(Post #3)

Also, I was really surprised to see a spring that was kept in its place using a bit of wire, which in itself was tearing at a cable! Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4apOE3gnzY (Look about an inch above the large metal bar.)

At first I was sure this had to be someone's DIY job, but after looking at a small picture of the loading mechanism on this site I'm not so sure anymore.

Question 9: is this wire/spring thing something to be concorned about, especially concidering this construction is putting pressure on a cable?

That's it for now. Sorry for such long posts and sorry too for numbering my questions, which somehow looks a bit patronising to me – it's the best I could do to bring some structure in a long and (for me) complicated tale...

Anyway, thanks for reading and thanks for any information people may be able to contribute...

(Post #2)

Question six: on the inside, near the RF out, I noticed what looks like a cinch connector. I haven't unplugged it for fear of breaking something, but would it be possible to get a picture out of this machine by plugging in said connector to an ordinary cinch extension lead?

So far the questions about this recorder. General observation: I quite like the way Sanyo have put this thing together. It's sturdy, and even though it's now 37 years old, and probably hasn't been used for years, it still comes back to life when you plug it in. Also, all PCB's appear to be placed in such a way they're extremely easy to access, a major difference with pretty much all machines I have opened up so far.

The same goes for the belts (if indeed there are only four of them) which are easily accessible once the PCB at the bottom has been unscrewed - and the wires on that board have been laid out in such a way you can simply put the board in a ninety degree angle while replacing the belts.

It's ironic really that machines that just keep going seem to be a lot easier to service than many other, more problematic models!

On to machine #2: Sony C9 ES.

At first, all attemps to get the machine to load the tape were fruitless - the recorder simply wouldn't swallow the tape. One day later, something, somewhere must have come back to life (thanks to the fact I had the machine connected to the mains for a few hours yesterday?) and swallowing now works, together with lacing and fast forward.

Rewind is a struggle and stops after a few seconds, during which the machine hardly manages to move the reels. Belts again, I guess.

Question seven: What would be a good supplier for belts to use in this machine? I checked the Sony site and it looks like they no longer offer them.

More worryingly, play doesn't work either. No tape movement at all, and the machine makes a clunking noise. Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iplSNJVUyAE

Caps that need replacing?

Question eight: What might cause the above problem?

(Continues with next post.)

(Post #1)

Hi all

I posted here about a month ago following problems with an SL 3000. I'm hoping to get someone to look into that at some point in the not too distant future, as I'm not knowledgeable enough to fix the machine myself. Meanwhile, I have been able to get two more recorders... each with their own problems.

First, a Sanyo VTC 9300. Yes, it's heavy - at a guess it weighs more than the Revox tape recorder I have, and that's quite an achievement!

I was able to play a tape for a few minutes; then the machine stopped. Pushing 'play' again would give again a few minutes of picture before playback stopped once more. From limited experience with this machine, I'd say the playback time before the machine stops playing decreases as you near the end of the tape.

Fast forward: fine. Rewind: hardly works. Belts, I assume.

Question one: would the playback stop issue also be belt related?

I loaded and unloaded a few tapes without problems. Then (with the one tape I had FF'd till I was nearly at the end of it) the machine struggled to get the tape out, making the kind of noises you don't want to hear. Taking off the lid revealed the tape had been trapped under the moving metal ring with pinch rollers etc. surrounding the head drum.

Using a moderate amount of force (certainly more than should be necessary...) the tape tray could be persuaded to lift; at this moment, applying force is necessary every time I want the tray to pop up.

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlihL8MhM0o&feature=youtu.be

Question two: any comments/suggestions about the unlacing problems? Could it also somehow have been caused by worn belts, do I need to oil the moving parts, etc.

Question three: what to do with the loading mechanism problems - although I don't fancy this, I may have to dismantle and reassemble the whole mechanism and hope I find something suspect in the process...

Question four: where might I be able to source belts? I have done some googling but I couldn't find any 'ready made' sets. Is my best bet to measure the belts that are currently in the machine and look for 'universal' replacements? (Links to trustworthy suppliers would be welcome, there's a bewildering amount of them out there, it seems...)

Question five: opening up the machine, it looks like there are four belts in all. Is that right?

(Continues with next post.)

Noel

It's nice to see you have a solution but I actually found a gear that fit's perfectly.Admittedly I had to slightly enlarge the hole it fit's on the shaft with and is one tooth more but it still works very nicely indeed.

As for the Sanyo belt's ,would you believe ALL the ones I've seen on the Sanyo's are either dried out,cracked or broken.NONE have been melted or sticky.(maybe it's because your climate is so hot?)

The only time I've seen that is on a couple of Toshiba's.

..............Kev

To anyone interested.

Alignment tapes.

I have produced my own alignment tapes on a mint SONY SLHF100P (printer machine)

That means two linear stereo audio tracks plus two HiFi tracks for alignment and machines checks. These are three hour tapes so if a section gets damaged by a machine there is plenty of tape section left

What you get is test pattern and swept tones and some sections of stable tones running in octave steps from 100 Hz through to 10kHz.

The swept tones are done at the rate of 25 sweeps a second so you can align/check the audio reponse at the same time as you are observing the video A and B head waveforms on a CRO.

Using this tape massively speeds testing and up alignment after repair. Since analogue TV transmissions have ceased, most people are just using these machines for playback anyway so such a prerecorded test tape is necessary since you have lost the normal and easy recording TV off a tuner and playing it back option of testing the machines.

I can supply then if anyone is interested in doing their own repairs but ideally you need have access to a suitable CRO to make full use of the tape unless you are just doing they alignment by eye and ear.

Contact me on betaheaven.com for more information.

regards Noel

To David Brunner,

You asked about part 281. I don't think it is available now or ever was really.

So here is a beta "trade secret" for the front load SONY machines I have developed that everyone should know about.

The part you require (a silver metal shaft with a "d" shaped section to clip into the top gear on one end and a small black gear on the other is a common fault with the Sony machines these days.

(Stop grinning Kevin - that doesn't make Sanyos better because the belts are still a pain when they turn to glue;-)

The black plastic gear shrinks and breaks on one side so the tooth gap increases eventually going out of mesh, then spinning on the metal shaft. You lose load and unload function

My standard fix is to take the gear off the shaft

clean any residue out of the gap with a craft knife

put into a plastic vice and close up the gap

drill the excess plastic out of the hole (a 2.5mm drill matches shaft I think)

Take it out of the vice

Super glue the gear back on the shaft

The put it back in the vice to dry so the gap remains closed

Then drill across just below the flat top of the gear with a 1mm drill

And put a paper clip metal through the hole and bend it up both sides

Make this a close bend into the gear head by using pliers

Then clip away the excess wire above the top of the gear. and through the top.

This way you have a gear that wont break and spin again though it may be a little noisey on loading and unloading.

In the machines I refurbish I always pull out the gears and pin them so they wont split open jam and break which they all eventually will otherwise.

regards Noel Higgins (betaheaven.com)

Hi Ed

Could be static build-up in the whole drum motor. Sony did release a grounding fix for this. If the static is not removed, it will destroy the drum-bearings in the end, as the small sparks will ruin them.

i have never seen it on PAL machines. Due to the lower drum rotations compared to a NTSC machine.

Is the dropouts white accross the screen? It could be also be the dropout compensator thats out of service or in the need of a tweaking.

If your able to record a Youtube video with the fault. Then we can better make a diagnose of the fault. :-)

Kind regards

Emil

hi

I have working SL-C30 which appear sot show excessive drop-out on most tapes.

Experience has taught me that this is often an earthing problem rather than drop-out. Some tapes are definitely worse than others, so it might be a combination of the two. But I've played back 20 tapes t his weekend and don't think I've ever seen a section of 3 seconds or longer without specks on the picture.

However, while I've read about a few Beta models having such problems, I've never heard of it before with the C30.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks

Hi Gavin:

The C5 for me is one I hav'nt really worked on so my experience is somewhat limited. Anything from the C6 (1982) upwards and I have a lot.

What you can do is,check all the switches and solenoids for free movement and no contamination,not broken or missing.

Also check that all belt's are in good order.

If it powers on Ok the it would appear the issues is from something not initialising.

Go from there.

Hope this helps........Kev

Hi David

I do have a extra black gear from a scrapped SL-C20. :-)

Of course i dont want to give it away for free, but a small symbolic payment would be okay, as those gears are rare. :-)

If interested then you can contact me.

Kind regards

Emil Jensen

hey Kevin, Gavin here, from a few weeks ago. i have a Sony c5 sl-c5e, and it powers up but after that nothing at all, dosent eject, or move, nothing. just wondered what you think could be the problem with the beta max.

David

Yes you could do providing you know it's been recorded on a well aligned Beta vcr.

...Kevin

For alignment is valid a original film?

Hi Guys

You are so correct. I searched with Google for them both :(

David.

I did have access to a similar part that fitted real tight for those old split black gears. This one was red and made from a slightly better material and was one tooth smaller but worked well.

I don't have any at the moment.

Those tools you will need to get hold of the Sony Betamax briefcase which is full of those alignment gauges and tapes.

I have one that you do pay a pretty penny for but it does the job.

The alignment tape was very worn.

Failing that sometimes you do see the odd piece from the set appear on E-Bay.

Cheers................Kev

Is necessary copy and paste because the link option is missing

Also is possible that you can't view the page, one person from Brazil told me that he could not enter in the mediafire page

Kevin - copy and paste the links into your browser's address bar and hit Return (one after the other, not both together!) - they do both work.

Both David's links worked for me....

David:

The links you've provided don't work :(

Also I need the tools for repair Beta videos, anybody can sell me or tell me where can I buy?

Link to the image of the tools: http://www.mediafire.com/view/0kgdbx9v59s5rjr/Tools.jpg

I have the Sony SL-C30, I need the piece 281, anybody can sell me or tell me where can I buy?

Link to the image of the pieces: http://www.mediafire.com/view/36hh1sxlsdj2y0i/Pieces.png

Hi Hellwyn:

The tone Hi/Lo is for the mono edge track sound NOT the Hi-Fi. It basically decreases the treble or any excessive tape hiss. Mind you, the mono head and output alignment have to be pretty much perfect for you to notice that.

That has a multiplex filter for any unwanted high frequency pilot tones such as with radio FM recordings.

.Kev

Thanks Kevin.

I'm also curious what the Tone (Hi/Low) button on the SL-HF100UB does? Is it a filter? Is it connected to Beta HiFi or for all sound? (Can't find my manual at the mo :-/ )

I need a new A/C head for the SL-T30ME

Gavin:

I personally have not come across a no power issue on a C6. A C9 and HF950 yes not a C6.

the usual issues in the PSU are caps going high esr and then causing fusible resistors and transistors to fail.

Why don't you go for a newer slimmer model?

The C6 is quite a beast.

..Kevin

hi there Kev, just a quick question, there is a Sony c6 up for sale on eBay, now it says does not light up just dead. could this be an internal fuse or something that may need changing.

That should be belt's not bet's :)

Gavin:

The Toshiba I have never seen or worked on but I do know if the control track head get's dirty or worn it stops you getting a playback picture as this affects the control track part on the tape too. It's the same for Sony's too.

Sanyo's you just get the associated picture with interference.

I would look at all the bet's on the 9300 and try to get the service manual too. They can be a great help to make sure your's is in spec.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

.........Kev

hi there, thanks for the reply Kevin. being a beta max enthusiast i can see where you're coming from in regards to there being better models out there. i also have a question as well. i have a Toshiba v8600 and the thing is when i hit play, there is no picture, but when i hit pause a picture shows up. the tape inside the Toshiba dosent seem to be spinning around like a tape normally does. i was just wondering what the problem was and how would i go about fixing the machine as i know as with the sanyo vtc-9300, there are better machines out there but with the love of beta max, and the memories it brings, i would like to just get them fixed, which im sure you can understand. what parts would i need if any to get the beta max going. any help would be appreciated so much. by far beta max was and is the far superior format to VHS, picture wise and recording wise, period.

Hi Gavin:

I wouldn't have thought the tape tension was too tight unless someone had been having a fiddle with it.

Far more likely the belts have stretched and it's struggling to do anything.

Not the best beta to go for in my opinion.

Sanyo's later models from the 5400 were far better.

I have only ever worked on one 9300 and that was for a no colour issue.

It's been a while so can't remember too much about that one.

My advice would be to get a later model.I have lot's or experience with those and they are far lighter and better all around.

Hope this helps?

.....Kevin

hi there, you guys. im from Leeds and i bought a sanyo vtc-9300 beta max. the person who i bought it from said it needs the tension sorting, as the tapes are to tight. how would i go about fixing this and what would i need to do. many thanks

Also the HF950 does hours/minutes/seconds too.

Hellwyn:

It's to do with a pulse they lay down on the tape. No pulse no counter read out. This is for the Sony's Beta's only .

Sanyo's use a different system linked to the reel drive spool.

The Sony C9 actually uses Hours minutes and seconds. Their other Beta's is just a counter function.

Keeping the tape laced at all times is how they achieved this.

As did the later VHS models, when their real time counters were added.

.......Kevin

Just curious - regarding counters on VCRs that only count the part of the tape that's been recorded on - how do they know which bits are blank? Fair enough for playback they can tell if a signal's there or not, but during FF or REW are they still 'reading' the tape for signal?

A bargain but it all really depends on if it was used excessively or had issues and was totally unmolested and complete.

Keep looking there are always the odd one here and there that some miss for a great price ,lightly used too.

......Kev

Joe,

It was a bargain at that price.

cheers Noel

And many thans to k.lambert too to try to help me

thanks noel.

last week i lost a good opportunity to buy a sl-hf950 for 70 euros. a guy was faster than me, but your post is very useful for me to know what to looking for.

Hi,

I have a Umatic SP VO-9800P machine which has been kept in a very clean environment. It was used for some editing years ago and has since been used to playback the occasional tape. Taking off the cover reveals a pristine interior. Last used 3 years ago, when all was well with it. Thinking I would transfer some Umatic tapes to DVD I loaded up the machine only to get the "error 20"message. With the cassette not fully loading. I do not feel confident to DIY on a repair. If anybody is interested in this Recorder please contact me by email movietone@blueyonder>co.uk and we could negotiate terms.

I also have a Sony reel to reel AV-3670ACE machine which is functional but the rubber drive belt has broken. Any suggestions on a future for that would also be welcome. Thanks

I purchased the service manual for Sony model # SL-3030 some years ago. I am cool with helping anyone who owns the same model Betamax.

Andrew

Thanks Noel (and Kevin), I'll check it out. :-)

Kevin,

On the SLHF100 there can be HiFi record and playback issues unrelated to the tuner board. In Australia we had the dual stereo FM carrier TV system like East Germany. I believe you had Nicam.

It is not an issue now because analogue transmissions have ceased.

I don't repair SL3000 machines so that is why I have not responded to the post. I would say however that he should check that the tape pickup reel is collecting the tape because a slack tape if the usual thing that stops a machine like that. It sounds like belt or rubber wheel grip issue. Look at typical faults in the SLC5 and SLC7 for guidance as they use a similar design.

cheers Noel

Noel:

What you are saying then is some of the 'stereo issues' for the HF100 stems from the tuner board?

If so interesting.

I've recently sorted on HF100 out that had a over saturated hi-Fi right channel during playback and under saturated during recording. The issue two transistors going leaky under the metal heat sink on the Hi-Fi board. Never seen that before.

I also have two other Hf100 's with no Hi-Fi playback and with good Hi-Fi heads.

I have also come across another couple of HF100 's with no colour during recording only. Ever seen that issue?

On the same machine the tape take up servo went high (like in picture search) during playback.

As for the setting of the head/capstan servo you can tell when it's spot on by going from or to playback or search modes, as the immediate playback image should lock solid.

The Sony issues certainly test your dedication, that's for sure.

Koen:

I think Noel would be your best bet for solution there as I've never come across or worked on that model.

....Kevin

Hi everyone

I'm new here. Since my native Belgium doesn't seem to offer a Beta site as extensive as this one, I've been looking up stuff here over the past couple of months - I'm into copying video tapes and am starting to look into 'other' systems, having myself limited to VHS until now. I have a problem and I thought there might be a few people here who would be willing to give some advice.

I recently acquired an SL 3000. The seller - someone more technically minded than I am - told me he had renewed the belts. The machine was demonstrated to me and it worked. It still worked fine when I tested it myself once I got home - I let it play for about ten minutes.

Fast forward two weeks without having used the recorder... and it no longer works. It powers up OK and brings the tape around the drum, FF and rewind work... but playing tapes doesn't. I have tested this a few times and as a rule of thumb the machine will play for a few seconds just after it has been powered on. Then it stops. After that, pûshing 'play' results in nothing at all. I have of course tried this with several tapes/brands.

The most obvious thing I can think of would be that there are some capacitators that need replacing (something I've never done before... but perhaps this'll have to be the first time). This site suggests checking the tantalum capacitators in the servo circuit.

Google tells me what such a capacitator looks like, but it probably can't indicate where exactly the servo circuit is located. I've taken a look inside the recorder and it's filled to the brim with capacitators, so if someone who knows this model well could tell me where to look for those capacitators, that would be a nice start.

I have tried powering on the machine for a few hours before attempting playback, as I'd read that sometimes helps problematic caps to come back to life. No luck. Belts look good.

Obviously, I'd welcome *any* advice (including 'it's not the caps at all, mate!'). As I said, my technical knowledge is really rather limited

(Continuing with another post - word count appears to be limited.)

Here's a short phone video of the recorder (with the lid off) loading a tape and then me pushing the play button. Sorry for the shaky start, pushing a heavy button with one hand while holding your phone in the other proved more difficult than I had imagined!

I should also add that the gears and non-belt rubber look like they are in great shape. The capstan roller is not shiny at all...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAt7hYM4lmg&feature=youtu.be

Kevin,

I assume you use a CRO for capstan and drum alignment because then you can redo a factory setup.

However if a CRO is not available then picking the centre point of adjustment between the high an low out of lock points works OK. Most people are only after playback machines now so that simplifies the number of checks you need to do as the odd tuner fault (e.g. SLHF100 stereo issues) are not a problem.

Yes, some are asking high prices considering they don't overhaul or guarantee the machines. I guess it's a case of buyer beware as with all eBay sales. Personally I am happy when I see some one able to relive their family memories through being able to view their old tapes again.

Cheers Noel

Hi Noel:

I also do this as a hobby and not business. I just find it a bit sad so many of these vcr's are in a poor shape now.Some just needing a good service and overhaul.

I also was (and still am ) passionate about the format too.

Interesting findings you have there.

I judge by sight and sound. When you have the experience and know what you see and hear for the respective models that goes a long way too. We just approach the solution at different angles.

Needless to say I am very particular with my results and ensure all the ones I've worked on are at their peak.

I still see a few Sony's with the failed hall effect sensor to the head drum and have had to use faulty capstan units to service these.

The glue is removed from any I see before they go wrong.

I also now see so many offering beta units on e-Bay for very high prices, some even with faults!!!!!!!!!!

I know we ask what we do as the ones we offer are now in perfect order and certainly worthy of use without calamity.

...Kevin

Kevin,

I am interested in your comments about comparative video bandwidths between models I am also basing my comments on many years of experience though unlike yourself fixing these was not my "real job" just a hobby. That said I have invented many fixes for problems that are stopping these ageing machines.

I have also developed special test tapes with both stereo HiFi and stereo linear tracks swept over the frequency range 100Hz to 10kHz at 25 times a second to match up with the A&B head waveforms monitored on a CRO at the same time. Only the SLO1700 and SLHF100P can make these tapes.

This cuts down the time to realign the machine because interaction between audio and video during adjustment is seen and optimised immediately. I think the Sony linear stereo machines are a bit harder to align. Sanyo, Toshiba and Sony mono machines are pretty easy.

What I have noticed is that the Sanyo VTC6500 for example has a base boosted response compared to the Sony which when properly aligned is flat just dropping of above 8kHz I have also noticed that linear stereo concept has fundamental design issues in the sense that when a stereo tape is played back on a mono machine, unless it is perfectly aligned compared to the source machine, at certain frequencies the magnetic domains of the left and right channels subtract and cancel out. This is only obvious when the same content appears on both channels but HiFi does my jot and cannot suffer this issue.

Actually it is a handy characteristic because the nulls give a very clear indication that the mono head is not vertical to the tape. You just have to sure the video path is correct by observing the video head exit pattern squareness then adjust the audio head exit guide to touch without wrinkling the tape including froward and reverse search modes then do the azimuth adjustment.

By the way, I sell these three hour test tapes if anyone is interested.

Regards Noel

Reliability wise I would say the Sanyo's fare better so long as the rubber items are refreshed every few years and they are properly overhauled.

Sony's tend to suffer with sensors, transistors and wear to reel motor bearings plus plastic gears/components. NOT all are though.

The average bandwidth to a Sony is 2.5 MHz (picture sharpness).This will be higher on the Super beta pro mode with the correct tape.

Sanyo's bandwidth result range from 1.8 (M10,20) to 2.0 for their 6500,5000 ,then 2.2 for the NX100 and best of all 2.8 for the M40.

Mono edge track sound tend to favours the Sanyo's with less background tape hiss but the azimuth and output levels tend to benefit now from a check.

The Sonys have the advantage of a Hi-Lo tone for their mono edge track later vcr's but they too benefit from a alignment check as well.

All these remarks are from many years working and overhauling these classic machines, not hearsay and are applicable to the UK model line up.

So there you go.It should help you decide on what your needs are.

Good luck too............Kevin

Joe and Kevin,

Remember some models are top loading so mounting them in a modern equipment cabinet is an issue. Sanyos are quite reliable except for issues with belts over time. I favour them over Toshibas because they seem to have head wear and electrical noise issues from worn reel motors. I like Sony overall and I don't think head wear from rewinding is so much of an issue but I agree with Kevins comments about Heads on HiFi machines. I still have new heads for the Sony machines (except SLHF950 ) but Sanyo HiFi heads have not been available since the the late 1990s.

I forgot one really good top load mono machine and the is the Sony F1.

It was an early portable unit and can run of DC or batteries. I expect that most of these have had little use compared to most VCRs with tuners as their main application was recording from a camera though a tuner/power supply option was provided.

They include top of the range features such as the SLC9 direct real motor drives and indicate real time tape positionat least to the nearest 10 seconds.

They make a good Beta to DVD conversion unit if you do not need stereo.

regards Noel

Joe: (and other potential Beta vcr's purchasers)

Another way of avoiding giving yourself a headache when deciding what beta format vcr to go for is, what features will you need or want?

That question should help to limit your choice.

Good solid basic models to consider are Sanyo: VTC 5000, 5150,M10 ,NX100. Sony C20, SL25.

Mid range with remotes (infra red).Sanyo VTC 6500, M20,M30(trick frame features).Sony SLF30 .SLC30, SLC40 (linear stereo) SLC9 (trick frame features ,Linear stereo)

Beta Hi-Fi models Sanyo :VTC M40. Sony :SLHF100, SLHF950 (Super beta),SL1700(linear stereo/Beta Hi-Fi ,no tuner).

All the Sanyo's listed unlace for the fast wind modes saving wear to the heads /tape and mechanism. The Sony SL1700 unlaces too which is unique for a Sony.

Also............. Try and get proof that the heads are in good shape before you buy as well. Those are getting harder if not impossible to obtain for the high end models now, but do last well if looked after and have had no head cleaners on them or bad attempts to clean them.

.................Kevin

Joe, (with apologies to Kevin- as I agree with his comments about differing opinions)

I only included Sony designs because of the features and my familiarity with them. Sanyo VTC M40 and VTC M50 are two HiFi machines worthy of consideration though they lack real time counters, linear stereo and APS options.

regards Noel

Joe,

You asked what are the top 5 betamax players and i presume you mean Pal machines and you also want stereo HiFi. If you want to cover both HiFi and linear stereo options then you start with SLO1700 which also has the best drive system - (uses the SLC9 direct drive )

So

SLHF950 (has everything except linear stereo) inlcudes APS

SLO1700 (no tuner or time readout counter but has best audio options

SLHF100P (lower featured version of SLO1700 based on SLHF100 design- no tuner)

SLHF100

SLHF150

Without HiFi stereo no contest - SLC9 - includes APS

Happy hunting.

regards Noel (betaheaven.com)

Martin,

Thanks for the new chatpage it looks good. I agree with the others newest post at the top works best for me.

regards Noel

Jamie,

The "E" represents the European market.

regards Noel (betaheaven.com in Australia)

Hi Lambert,

I also suspect it is the caps on board M inside the powerblock. Hope it didn´t chainreact on other parts.

Thnx for your info, I'll have a technician to measure out / check on that.

Nik

I would check all capacitors in the PSU and also voltages.

Sony's are well know for having quite a few electrolytic ones going high ESR and blowing out transistors and fusible resistors.

..Kevin

Hi, I would like to have some guidance to a technical problem with my TT -F1E unit.

I recently aquired it and it works fine except the fluorecent display.

So I opened it up looked at the 3.15A 250V fuse, seems kinda old so I replaced it with a fresh one. Then when I powered it up again for a few seconds the standby and batcharge leds went on at front panel. Aftewards only the green standby led is slightly blinking and I can hear a ticking noise near the powerblock.

I checked the fuses on FF-1 and DA-3 board, but they are intact. Furthermore I did a visual check on the boards and the powerblock (M board) but everything seems to be intact, no burns or bursts.

Does this sound familliar to anyone? I'm not a technician, though I tried to gather much info as possible from the service manual.

Joe, the PALsite thumbnail gallery would be a good place to start your search:

http://www.palsite.com/thumb.html

I would also suggest you take a look at all of the HiFi models available, the models page shows these in green:

http://www.palsite.com/models.html

Joe:

I think you'll find there will be a different and justified opinion from most here.

The best thing to do is try and see the results from each vcr for yourself.

Naturally the top end Beta's will have a better performance than the lower ones, but they will be over complex and have more opportunity to have issues due to their complexity.

Good luck with your venture and most importantly .....enjoy the experience.

..Kevin

Jay, I've used the Datavideo TBC-1000 with mixed results. Yes, it can help stabalize the picture, and stops audio dropout when the picture flickers - but on mine it also clips the whites, so whites appear a little more bleached out than on the original tape. It's annoying! :( I try not to use it.

I bought a second one, as I thought mine was faulty, and it was actually even worse for doing it.

I had one imported from US and one I got in UK, both off eBay. They come up fairly regularly for about £100-£150 GBP.

Top 5 betamax players?

Hello, i want to buy a good betamax player but i dont know what to buy

I know the SL-HF950 is probably de best betamax pal player ever made but is difficult to find for a good value so i want to know the top 5 of best betamax player to buy one.

i should have said; I'm in Australia.

Can anyone recommend a good time base corrector for archiving my Betamax collection?

Noel did a great job on fixing my HF-950 ; and I just want to make sure the signals as good as I can get it.

I'm also interested in peoples opinions on the need to clean older tapes before playing.

Thanks all.

I couldn't get it to tune in using the aerial output so I'm using the standard video output to connect it with the tv. I will run a tape through and let you know if it helps, thanks.

Zac, does the television show an image when you do not play a tape but use the tuner of the recorder to receive signal?

If that gives you an image, it could be that the video heads are dirty. Safest way to clean heads is to play a know good tape for an extended period. Just let it run for an hour or two and see what happens.

If you don't get a picture from the recorder tuner then there is a problem with the cable between the recorder and the television.

I have a Sanyo VTC 9300 and I can't get it to display video. I have the correct video and audio cables but when I plug it into my TV it only plays the sound, it does seem to play the tape fine as the audio is at the correct speed but no video. Any suggestions?

I have added a new "Show newest posts first" link.

Just remember to update your bookmark.

I think the reason I swapped it was because we now have prev and next buttons to see all of the old posts. So it might get a bit confusing?

To be honest, I wasn't sure which way up people preferred. If you bookmark the following link it should take you to the bottom of this page.

http://www.palsite.com/chat_page.py#bottom

Personally I think the newest at the top works best. I'm happy to change it. Keep the suggestions coming in.

Well done, one small note, new posts are now at the bottom of the page instead of on the top as it used to be. Means that you have to scroll down to the end to see if there are any new posts.

I would prefer to have new posts at the top, is that possible?

I second that NICE JOB..VERY nice:)

....Kevin

Welcome to the new chat page!

Please let me know if there are any problems.

All posts on the old system are now being deleted.

Hellwyn:

Not a problem.

The fact is though 99% of these classic vcr's DO need this and belt's/new rubber can go a little way to sorting most common issues out.

Good luck with whatever you do though.

....Kev

Thanks for the offer Kevin but I don't really wanna spend too much on this machine. I have several other (much better!) machines and picked this one up just to get hold of the tapes that came with it. Was just thinking if I can get it working, hopefully it'd play any dodgy tapes it recorded back with more accuracy than my other machines.

Hi Richard, you might have inadvertently tripped the automated spam removal system when posting, especially if you see your post, but then see it vanish soon afterwards.