Yup! That's the fellow!

The 33-pin interface itself should be fairly straightforward; it was standard to most Sony kit pre-RS-422 and existed alongside it for many years... I have it in the back of my head this isn't so much a 'data' connection as a multi-line TTL switch! Pins 1-20 are the 'core' of the system with A-D an extension... JKL & S are serial data.

- I recall building a unit to gain very basic control over a Hitachi VHS machine for play-in via an RM440; lord knows where the notes for that are though!

As you say though; without a specific manual for the machine it's not easy to deal with at all.

Matt,

M<any television stations here did adopt the SLC9 in the early days for their off air recording, so the quality of that machine was recognized and appreciated by the professional TV industry.

cheers Noel

Matt,

The SLC9 has the S-control but there was a commercial variant of it called the SLO-420P without a tuner.

See http://www.palsite.com/slo420ovi.html

That machine works to a professional edit controller. The SS11 board has a few modifications but the tuner board is replaced with a controller board to do all the interface work. I repaired one of these for Roderick as i recall. I still have two of these with SS11 board issues but too hard to fix without knowing the circuit and interface variations from standard.

regards Noel

Matt,

isopropyl. Yes I thought about that this morning. Was just about to go to sleep when I wrote that and didn't spell check/reread.

cheers Noel

Phil

Absolutley, glad we could oblige :)

.............Kev

Matt

One thing I did forget to mention is I too have fund some 'interesting things' inside some of them. Usually top loaders though.

Bit's of puzzle,Newspaper,polystrene pieces, plastic toys,hair pins,the list goes on.

.....Kev

I've reservations about the (isopropyl surely?) soaked-card trick; but these are possibly more down to 'cultural resistance' than anything. Possibly if I was stuck (no pun intended) with a glue-covered head it's certainly something I would at least try.

And certainly, the cleaning techniques used on 'large format' VTRS - applied at every tape pass - seem so 'casually aggressive' as to make me wince; if you ever get the chance to see something like a 2" Ampex in operation bring a Ukelele and bang out a few bars of 'When I'm Cleaning Windows'! I still have firmly fixed memories of my gaffers literally breathing down my neck as I carefully applied my first swab to the heads of an old Sany EIAJ machine... "ye can shatter the head now! Be careful!"

The C9 was indeed quite a beast... The chassis appeared in modified form on the professional market - sans tuner, but with an interface which allowed it to operate as play-in to an edit suite. - Problem was that by that time 'nobody' was really shooting anything on Betamax... Shame... A lot of dubbing suites had them though!

Alas! Gremlins abound and I'm struggling to get posts through!

THIS is what this forum is for! Absolutely loving the recent posts from Kev, Matt and Noel. Turning out to be a very enjoyable Sunday afternoon because of these very knowledgeable people.

Phil

Matt,

My electronics field is more radio related, over 37 years with the government and 9 years as a consultant since then. This being a hobby, I have picked up most of my knowledge from trial and error plus service manuals. I actually did a video course at one stage related to the TV and radio interference we used to chase. A tip from the lecturer about video recorders which I still use to clean heads is a paper business card wet with isotropic alcohol. Wrap it around the exposed drum and spin the head assembly. It works a treat especially for getting glue/gunk of the heads after someone has spliced a tape using normal "sticky tape". He said that it might be to abrasive but I have not found any issues in over 10 years. You can feel the heads moving across the surface of the card from the back edge and see the dirt that comes off.

Funny thing at the time was he was talking only VHS and the tricks they used to improve the "apparent" quality of the playback signal. On the second day I showed him the features of an SLC9 and he was blown away. Especially by little touches such as the proportional monitoring of the spool rotation to give a led display indication of how far you are through a tape you have just loaded.

cheers Noel

Actually Kev, here's an odd thing... Back in the day I was actualy trained to use a cotton-bud for head cleaning! - Both at Strathclyde University and Thames TV! - The technnique was to wind the 'bud' tight, get it very wet and use it to GENTLY 'capilary' a little IPA onto the head tip... The drum was then spun to dry it; and the machine given a minute or two for the IPA to escape!

Hulking huge machines like 1" 'C' machines were cleaned with a lint-free swab!

The little chamois 'tab' things were considered an unnecessary luxury except in extreme circumstances! - Glad to say I've not lost a head in 35 years; but that might just be dumb luck ;-)

Ooops! My Apologies for the duplicate post! - Board gremlins again!

There was a time when I made no particular secret of doing my own repairs and line-ups; so from time to time I used to have neighbours and clients asking me to look at things... C7s with Matchbox cars trapped inside were relatively common as of course to small eyes they do resemble a 1960s underground car park... Apparently!

A C40 with a letter to Bart Simpson 'posted' in it was fun (paper shredded, mech jammed but surprisingly no damage once cleared), and another front loader (from the same series) that apparently looked a bit hungry so had been 'given' a Mars Bar to eat... Helpfully followed by the child's Mother giving the machine a good spray/wipe down with anti-bac cleaner (mostly IPA to be fair) and J-cloths... With it plugged in!

That one had no heads left either!

WD 40? - For around a dozen years I lectured at Stow College in Glasgow... The place where bands like Snow Patrol and Belle & Sebastian got their break. The mixing desk in the studio was a classic 'Big by Langley'... Lovely bit of kit. I walked in one day quite by chance ( I didn't teach audio!- And didn't use that control room)to find a certain Muppet who had previously taught computer assembly was about to attack the 'slightly stiff' faders with a can of motorcycle chain grease! - This 'expert' had been called in by another complete muppet who didn't like the the sound of my saying - with a mere three decades or so of experience and specific qualifications in electronics - 'you'll need to get Langley in to look at it'....

Which I did of course because I guessed/knew it would need specialist attention, tools and equipment I didn't have, would take more than 'five minutes'; and my job was to teach classes anyway! Apparently this guy 'fixed' a lot of 'stereos and videos'... From the state a lot of vintage stuff is in I can believe it!

Matt

One thing I did forget to mention is I too have fund some 'interesting things' inside some of them. Usually top loaders though.

Bit's of puzzle,Newspaper,polystrene pieces, plastic toys,hair pins,the list goes on.

......Kev

Noel & Matt:

The WD40 'thing' is also something I come across a lot ,especially on Sanyo VTC 5000 's,5150's and the 54/300 series.

It would seem it's all too convenient as they can see 'what they think' maybe causing said issues through the cassette hatch.

The trouble is , as I'm in no doubt you already know, is that it get's all over the felt friction and other arrears the rubber tyres need to grip on.

Also it's ruined the dampener mechanism for the hatch pop up, greeting you with an almighty whack, when pressing eject.

As for those 'head cleaning attempts' by some, I'm convinced they think the whole silver metal drum ARE the heads, hence their solution of toothpaste and whatever they deem suitable for the task.

I think to be fair too we've all had the odd mishap when doing this work and you do learn by it all. It's just the ideas that some conjure up to solve their issues just defy belief a lot of the time.

I've also seen rubber bands for 'drive belt's and also 'O' rings for idlers and some ideas of the latter are actually suggested by some who should know better on other forums too.

Then there's my favourite. Using a Cotton bud (Q tip to those overseas) for cleaning. That's just asking for trouble, as they often don't mention NOT to the video heads until a few have broken theirs off!

So there you go, still it gives us something to discuss and hopefully for others to read to avoid any future mishaps.

...........Kev

There was a time when I made no particular secret of doing my own repairs and line-ups; so from time to time I used to have neighbours and clients asking me to look at things... C7s with Matchbox cars trapped inside were relatively common as of course to small eyes they do resemble a 1960s underground car park... Apparently!

A C40 with a letter to Bart Simpson 'posted' in it was fun (paper shredded, mech jammed but surprisingly no damage once cleared), and another front loader (from the same series) that apparently looked a bit hungry so had been 'given' a Mars Bar to eat... Helpfully followed by the child's Mother giving the machine a good spray/wipe down with anti-bac cleaner (mostly IPA to be fair) and J-cloths... With it plugged in!

That one had no heads left either!

WD 40? - For around a dozen years I lectured at Stow College in Glasgow... The place where bands like Snow Patrol and Belle & Sebastian got their break. The mixing desk in the studio was a classic 'Big by Langley'... Lovely bit of kit. I walked in one day quite by chance ( I didn't teach audio!- And didn't use that control room)to find a certain Muppet who had previously taught computer assembly was about to attack the 'slightly stiff' faders with a can of motorcycle chain grease! - This 'expert' had been called in by another complete muppet who didn't like the the sound of my saying - with a mere three decades or so of experience and specific qualifications in electronics - 'you'll need to get Langley in to look at it'....

Which I did of course because I guessed/knew it would need specialist attention, tools and equipment I didn't have, would take more than 'five minutes'; and my job was to teach classes anyway! Apparently this guy 'fixed' a lot of 'stereos and videos'... From the state a lot of vintage stuff is in I can believe it! ;-)

Just to say, I'm currently ironing out a few issues with the Chatpage. You might have noticed some posts vanish without any reason.

Guys,

Some "mechanical" repairers like to spray in a bit of WD40 or CRC into the mechanisms and over the heads. Not only does that make it hard to fix the machine but next time they use the last tape they tried to play through it, they just get some of that gunk back on the tape path and heads.

But it is not just the tinkerers you have to watch out for. Many years ago I went to meet a customer who obtained a Sanyo machine off me through eBay and said that it stopped working after a while and he had tried cleaning the heads but that did not work. I wondered what the white deposits were around the now broken heads, so I asked him what he had used to clean the heads and he said a toothbrush and toothpaste.

My cure for that - full refund, see you later NOT!

cheers Noel

Matt:

I've had a few shocking vcr's come in my direction. One had no heads at all ,just the copper parts the heads are glued too (Sanyo VTC 5000 ) oh and it was described as 'spares or repair'.

I had another guy send me his Sony HF100 to sort. Upon inspection one Video head was just gone the other three were there. He said he used an air compressor to blast away the dirt and dust.NO kidding!

Oh and on his attempt to get the head drum out (for some reason) he took it upon his self to CUT.Yes Cut instead of unplugging the three main wires to this from the board ,as they seemed to elusive to trace back. Needless to say I had it all back 100% but having had to use good heads and another board from my 'spares' one.

Another thing a few do with Sanyo's is,to help the tape 'play better' (no doubt down to poor idlers and belt's) they open up or loosen the important tape guides. That takes some time to put back into spec, but I've seen it so often I have become pretty swift at it now.

What they don't realise at the time is, the actual issue's would've been sorted a lot quicker if left alone.

I also remember reading in an old Video mag Which video about a service engineer who had a VTC 5000 on the table with poor picture playback. He was told be the owner he tried cleaning the heads himself.

What the engineer found was someone had tried to LEVER APART the two halves of the head drum, maybe in the hope they could 'get them out to polish them', distorting the highly polished metal in the process. He rendered an otherwise perfect machine with dirty heads and unviable option down to the damage.

Yet another guy who cleaned his audio cassette deck heads with an emery board and wondered why the sound was so poor after!!!!!!!!!

Truly shocking.........Kev

I've never understood why people do that...

Take something apart with no clue as to how it might go back together and worse-still without even taking note of what they did along the way - not even laying things out in the order they were disassembled.

It's the 'pot twiddlers' that get to me... Or those that think they can cure some tape path error by bending things!

As a youngster, in my first year of training, I worked in University AVA department. I was once sent out to discover why an EIAJ Cartridge machine wouldn't eject a tape... The individual who was using it was spitting chips because it was the only copy of some key event. There stood the man - a Physics Professor no less - butter-knife in hand having taken the lid off the thing and basically tried to carve his tape out of it!

Noel:

Ditto.

I've had the exact same thing happen on Sony's and also another common re occurance on a lot of Sanyo's if fiddled with elsewhere is putting the screws in the wrong holes ,or worse even failing to put them back altogether.

Good job we have some for spares eh? SCREWS that is..............

Still all part of the fun :)

.......Kev

Kevin,

I just fixed one of the red Sony SLC35AS machines today. It had been "got at" by someone as evidenced by the screws being put back in all the wrong places and a misaligned load ring.

The problem other than all that, was the assembly on top of the load/unload motor.

I have noticed this problem happen on a number of machines now. If the friction gets too much the centre gear with the D shaped hole, directly driven by the shaft to drive two planetary gears splits and jams. Repair by replacement of course then normal refurbishment of the machine to bring it up to scratch.

Normal service on a working machine just requires a drop of light oil on the top of the gear assembly to free them up and avoid this problem and also reduce the machines loading noise.

cheers Noel

From a previous post...

And with apologies to our cousins South of the equator who I omitted in error...

"This site itself is now a part of British and European TV folklore and as such worthy of preservation. You seem not to appreciate why Palsite (still) exists - the clue's in the name as you Americans will insist in saying.

Palsite emerged from a mid-90's fog of 'Americentric', and to us in Britain and Europe highly misleading information about a small group of VT formats. – The vagaries of NTSC machines are therefore not what we are concerned with or interested in… There are dozens of better-threaded, better-coded, more comprehensive sites out there from which the fine detail affecting machines of various types can be gleaned."

Similarly from the top of the front page...

"The home of the

PAL video system"

Nobody here CARES about "others who happen to own the majority of Betamax players (NTSC)" for the very simple reason that THIS site exists to pursue the minority interest.

What part of this is beyond your comprehension Mr 'Clinical Psychologist'? You're OFF TOPIC!

I would then, further, refer you to track track 12 side 2 of Blondie's classic album "parralel Lines" and am minded of the final response given in the case of Arkell Vs Pressdram!

Kevin,

Yep, and like we asked for his opinions or take orders?

cheers Noel ;-)

We have lift off.da da da da da da da da da da da da da daa.

YAWN.....................

O.K. fellas, stop crowing.

I was referencing our top of the range NTSC SL-HF1000 and inadvertently left out the last zero.

The only top of the range player you folks have is the SLHF-950 which crosses to our SLHF-750 and yes, the gear, that is so controversial, is not present in that player.

So, stop jumping for joy and be glad I am here to help you folks and many others who happen to own the majority of Betamax players (NTSC).

I noticed Kev came up with a replacement for the transport loading gear that Noel also had a fix for. As usual, he makes no mention of where to find this magical replacement with the extra tooth "more or less". Not very nice to withhold the information. As I have found out, niceness is not something to be found here.

re: SONY 3-684-163-01 Gear, Driving Arm

go here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DFZVH8?redirect=true&ref_=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_0

Location: Germany

Thank you from Mr.Beta....

Hi Noel:

That thought did cross my mind too.

I have found a good replacement gear for that black one that split's on the loading metal rod that we occasionaly see.It is maybe on tooth more or less out but it fits tight and also does a good job too.

As for the other comments I would ignore them.I believe they are trying to goad you into a response like I've had thrust upon myself.

We are talking PAL machines here plain and simple.NTSC pretty much irrelevant as we don't see or work on them.Especially the later more breakage prone models(as in plastic parts) as are usually being extolled about here.

.....Kev

Five, four ,three ,two , one......................

TO OVERCOME THE INCORRECT "EXPERT" INFORMATION BEING THRUST UPON PALSITE

Don't confuse the "load gear" (metal shaft and black gear) problem of the SLHF100

See http://www.palsite.com/100tech.html

with the "loading arm gear" (all white plastic only) problems of the SLF30.

See http://www.palsite.com/slf30tech.html

Also, the "loading arm gear" of the SLF100 is totally different in design and is not prone to breaking.

regards Noel

Jon,

New parts are great if you can get them and have no other options.

If you owned an SLHF100 then you would be a lucky man. If you owned an SLHF950 you would be even luckier.

You would then also know that SLF30 and SLHF100 have completely different chassis designs.

That gear is not interchangeable.

Get your facts straight if you are going to PLAY being an expert on Pal machines.

regards Noel

Noel, you live in a free country and if you want to "pass" on a brand new gear that was presumably no longer available and is presentable at a reasonable price, that is your prerogative.

If I owned, for instance, an SL-HF100, I would be thrilled to pay upwards of $100.00 for that gear and be happy to get it.

"Fredric" from Amizon had the darn gear listed under a title that made no sense. I told him about it and how to present the gear so folks could actually find it. That's why he only just started moving the product. And, for some strange reason, some Australian Betaphiles have already pre-ordered. Not you, of course.

Look, I understand you have your reputation tied up in that repair. It's understandable that you are upset. Try to be reasonable and realize that your repair is noisy and, in most instances, will damage the other gear that it meshes with. When no new gears were available, it was a great solution....but not anymore.

I agree, for most average people, it may be a bit overpriced, especially if their players are not "top of the range". It is for that reason that I will be posting additional sites with more competitive pricing.

When I post another site and you see the gear is less money, will you still be upset?

Stay tuned.

>>>>>SONY 3-684-163-01 Gear, Driving Arm<<<<<<

go here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DFZVH8?redirect=true&ref_=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_0

Location: Germany

Thank you from Mr.Beta....

I don't know about everyone else, but I intend to pass on having an expensive "AMAZONING" experience.

High postage costs

Payment conversions to $US

Credit card risks?

PLUS, Amazon conditions

The loss during postage risk is all yours

No product returns

For the American NTSC market - go get it.

(What - no takers since 2010 ?????)

IT MUST BE OVER PRICED.

Message to Simon Lincoln.

Feel free to get in touch with myself anytime for help with the Beta.

Cheers.....Kev

Palsite posters:

1) Looks like Simon lost interest, enough already.

2) That fix for the 3-684-163-01 gear was a terrific idea whose time came and went.

It made a disconcerting "thumping" sound and was really hard on the gear it meshed with, eventually distroying its teeth as well.

3) I have tried that suggestion about purchasing spares machines in the past. Some had bad gears in them already and those whose gears were sound did not last very long.

A brand new gear is the only way to go, since we now have a source. It's the only economical choice at this point in time when most spares that are inexpensive are the ones that have accumulated many hours and are just plain worn out.

Just to reiterate:

re: SONY 3-684-163-01 Gear, Driving Arm

go here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DFZVH8?redirect=true&ref_=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_0

Location: Germany

I may be totally off base, but I honestly believe if I posted that I have a large stock of this gear and am willing to ship it to anyone, free of charge, all over the planet that I would still get complainers. There must be more to this resistance to purchasing a new gear than is being stated here.

I wonder who is buying the gears from Fredric who told me he hasn't sold any since some time in 2010?

Thank you from Mr.Beta....

Matt:

Will be in touch soon.

Noel:

Keep on doing what you're doing, there are many out there who appreciate your efforts including myself :)

Cheers...............Kev

This is a repost made by a Mr Simon Lincoln who was trying to get in contact with me.

(Trying to keep this near the top of the forum page on the off chance he takes a look).

I have tried to contact you Simon by your e-mail but it doesn't appear to be working.

Feel free to get in touch again here.

Always happy to help you out.

....Kev

Hi there this is a post for Mr Kevin Lambert

Hi Kevin i have a Sanyo vtc 5000 with two issues, 1 i think the belt has perished on the main moter wheel 2, when itdid work i could not get play back from either ariel or AV connectors although strangley when test signal was on the audio was nice and clear, flick switch back and nothing

Just wondering would you be willing to work on my machine and bring it back to life?

Thanks Kevin heres hoping

P.s keep up the outstanding work you do for other enthusiasts as it is very rare now to get people to look at these machines

That's good to know Noel; could save people a lot of money.

Kev,

I know you've been working with these machines for a very long time and are generally one of the first 'go to people' that gets mentioned in technician circels when these things come up; I'd be interested in YOUR take on the current spares position in the UK? Particularly for things like belts etc... What options do we have?

For general interest.

The load gears that break in the SLF30 can be repaired and in any event, for the price of the replacement gear suggested and postage (totals $59US) you can buy a whole spares machine second hand and save on landfill doing the world and the beta hobby a favour.

cheers from lazy Noel (in Sunny Australia)

Hoping to keep this near the top of the Palsite chat forum.

It's so groundbreaking and important insofar as keeping our beloved Sony Betas "ALIVE"!

When you went here: http://www.palsite.com/slf30tech.html

and scrolled down to: Failure to load a tape

You found a detailed description of the problem. Unfortunately, the author gave neither a part number nor a source of procuring the described gear. Just a lazy person who wrote the article.

So here is my re-post. Fredric says several have already been shipped out to Australia....so don't procrastinate.

re: SONY 3-684-163-01 Gear, Driving Arm

go here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DFZVH8?redirect=true&ref_=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_0

Location: Germany

Thank you from Mr. Beta....

This is a repost made by a Mr Simon Lincoln who was trying to get in contact with me.

(Trying to keep this near the top of the forum page on the off chance he takes a look).

I have tried to contact you Simon by your e-mail but it doesn't appear to be working.

Feel free to get in touch again here.

Always happy to help you out.

....Kev

Hi there this is a post for Mr Kevin Lambert

Hi Kevin i have a Sanyo vtc 5000 with two issues, 1 i think the belt has perished on the main moter wheel 2, when itdid work i could not get play back from either ariel or AV connectors although strangley when test signal was on the audio was nice and clear, flick switch back and nothing

Just wondering would you be willing to work on my machine and bring it back to life?

Thanks Kevin heres hoping

P.s keep up the outstanding work you do for other enthusiasts as it is very rare now to get people to look at these machines

Matt,

"Sorry your post is too old" will generally come up when the writer is inclined to bloviate.

The site can't handle long posts.

Noticed you had that problem when you first resumed posting after a years absence.

Thank you from Mr.Beta....

I had a couple of odd things happen with messages disappearing too! - Bear in mind that the board itself is something of a 'vintage treasure' worth preserving; foibles and all; it's just part of its character.

Strange,

I had a repeated post then when I made the last comment, the duplicated post disappeared.

regards Noel

Don't know why my post is repeated... unless!

Martin,

I've been able to link that interview from Simon Mayo (Drivetime) and, despite the fact that English is not my native language, I've almost understood the whole thing. It's been great to listen to that.

Thanks a lot!

Noel;

I listened to the Andrew Easton one (about 40 mins in, it's first mentioned) and it was very interesting.

..Kev

Martin,

I picked up the interview now thanks to the link.

regards noel

Oh dear, how ironic! The disrupter bemoaning the past disruptions.

Anyway, to answer several messages I privately received from owners of the great SANYO VTC5150 and VCR4400. They complain about the fluorescent display being jumbled and sometimes going blank.

This has been attributed to the i.c. behind the display. It is typically a Texas Instrument part# MP1539.

I am unable to source this part...maybe some Sanyo techs on this site can lead me to a website where they are available.

Thank you from Mr.Beta....

This is a repost made by Simon Lincoln who was trying to get in contact with me.

Due to the recent disruptions here he was no doubt scared off. (can't say I blame him either)

I have tried to contact you Simon by your e-mail but it doesn't appear to be working.

Feel free to get in touch again here.

Always happy to help out.

....Kev

Hi there this is a post for Mr Kevin Lambert

Hi Kevin i have a Sanyo vtc 5000 with two issues, 1 i think the belt has perished on the main moter wheel 2, when itdid work i could not get play back from either ariel or AV connectors although strangley when test signal was on the audio was nice and clear, flick switch back and nothing

Just wondering would you be willing to work on my machine and bring it back to life?

Thanks Kevin heres hoping

P.s keep up the outstanding work you do for other enthusiasts as it is very rare now to get people to look at these machines

Alan was interviewed on the following 7 shows:

10th November

BBC Hereford & Worcester - Andrew Easton

BBC Radio 5 live - 5 live Drive

BBC Radio Merseyside - Simon Hoban

BBC Radio 2 - Simon Mayo Drivetime (http://bbc.in/1QsfJCS at 1:36:40)

11th November

BBC Radio Berkshire - Paul Ross

BBC Radio Scotland - Good Morning Scotland

BBC Radio Wales - Jason Mohammad

They are still all available to listen to on the BBC.

Thank you very much for the link Matt!

I'm not sure Gabriel... I only heard it by chance as I was travelling; Radio Scotland run a 'talk' segment at that time in the morning and it was just a breif 'spot'. Programmes are sometimes repeated on BBC i-player, but it would be needle-in-haystack stuff to try and find it.

There were however a couple of mentions of the story...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p037qbcw

Matt,

Is there any link we could play that Alan's interview back? It should be great!

Thanks in advance,

Gabriel

keyboard problem

Sony pt# 3-684-163-01

Martin,

re: SONY 3-684-163-10 Gear, Driving Arm

go here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DFZVH8?redirect=true&ref_=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_0

Location: Germany

50 in stock....contact him, will negotiate a price for all 50.

I have 15 other sites where the supplier doesn't realize he has them and are needed in the Betamax repair community.

Last time I did this, got a lot of negative reactions.

Only Martin should respond if there is any problems.

Thank you from Mr.Beta....

Oh dear, you are so right Rod.

Maybe you can give Matt's home address from his IP like you did the last time when the board blew up.

I, too, will check back in a few weeks to check up on the board to see if any Beta folks need assistance.

Sure is a shame what some people do, especially after we had such a beautiful discussion.

Oh dear, here we go again.

Never mind, we have been here before and soon enough the Steve's, Jon Pierre or whatever name they give themselves will get bored with this and find somewhere else to annoy.

I'll check in a few weeks and if we are back to normal we can talk about maintaining Betamax machines instead of feeding someone's delusional beliefs.

I merely write in defence of a fellow enthusiast whose response was entirely appropriate and on-topic. And in clarification of what I and others understand the site to be about.

Alan's radio piece the other day must have encouraged more than a few people to visit ( and like myself re-visit after a long absence) the site. How many must have taken one look at the unseemly display and been tempted to compose a reply along the lines of the shortest passage in The Bible?

All of this nonsense does nothing to progress what should be a gentle hobby! Nor does the Hijacking of the site by those evangelising the usual 'Merricentric' information we can read anywhere aid, assist or promote those exploring the particular issues surrounding PAL VTRs!

And so it goes on <sigh>. I wonder Jon Pierre if you would join a Rover V8 owners' forum then insist, 'Cartman style', on picking over the fine detail of cars fitted with the Buick 215?

Fascinating and delightful as it is that South Pole Scientists indulge in this little ritual, had the problem with Siri's machine proved more deep-rooted, then it would have been referred elsewhere…

Noel gave sound general advice, in good faith and proper context, based on his considerable experience, to a generic – if arguably off-topic - question. Something similar is true of other – highly respected and knowledgeable individuals - with whom you previously sought to lock horns.

This site itself is now a part of British and European TV folklore and as such worthy of preservation. You seem not to appreciate why Palsite (still) exists - the clue's in the name as you Americans will insist in saying.

Palsite emerged from a mid-90's fog of 'Americentric', and to us in Britain and Europe highly misleading information about a small group of VT formats. – The vagaries of NTSC machines are therefore not what we are concerned with or interested in… There are dozens of better-threaded, better-coded, more comprehensive sites out there from which the fine detail affecting machines of various types can be gleaned.

And this leads me on to your demeanour: " Pummeled[sic] with sarcastic and angry remarks?

If, as is claimed, you actually are a trained clinical psychologist, you should understand how inappropriate in is to move into a (largely social) group which is focussed on one particular aspect of a topic and indulge in self-aggrandisement, seeking position within that group based on self-certified knowledge of a different aspect!

Even as a lecturer in charge of a class I would NEVER use phrases such as "as I have told you", "but we must realize[sic]", followed by "so we must be careful". Few adults will rise to a patronising "well done" on completion of a basic task. - Elementary educational psychology (Andragogy Vs Pedagogy) teaches you that!

And this in any case is not a lecture theatre from which to pontificate!

The people who share this little hobby range from qualified broadcast and service technicians with decades of experience through to youngsters fascinated by some old relic hauled from the loft. British culture is such that as hobbyists we sit at the same table as equals to pool knowledge, not gain status… Pips in pockets!

For clarity, "Mr.Beta…."[sic] your 'thanks', praise or approval are not required. IF elevated status is granted to an individual within the group then that is by common consent and received with utmost modesty.

Talking down to people WILL only ever seed resentment. Please desist!

Noel,

I gave specific advice on that specific (SL-S600)Betamax based on the NTSC system which was the topic of conversation.

When the CTL pulse (or tracking pulse as you call it) is lost on the SL=S600, audio and video are muted...period.

As I have told you, mechanically Pal and NTSC are the same, but we must realize there are differences electronicallym so we must be careful when giving out advice for systems we are not familiar with.

All the best,

Thank you from Mr.Beta....

Jon,

I gave that general advice on the basis of the PAL machines I service. They generally only mute audio in preview and review modes not normal play, and if they do, not straight away. During alignment I have certainly noticed the linear sound continue when the tracking signal drops out. You might be locked into that way of thinking because of HIFI machines.

regards Noel

Hey all!

Thanks for the responses. Turns out it was a bad cable, I can't believe I didn't think of that first. And, per your additional advice, I've now routed the video out directly to the TV. I think the convoluted routing was mainly to make it easier for users on this end, although, I'm not sure how or why that would be.

Thanks again!

-Siri

The board keeps throwing up weird errors... My post is "too old" again apparently; others are just disappearing! Apologies if multiple posts appear/disappear from me.

As I tried to post earlier...

Having worked in broadcast televsion for over 35 years as technician, producer and lecturer, I would not encourage anyone uninitiated in basic electronic servicing to hand-clean the heads of a VTR. - This job is NOT 'brain surgery' and it can be learned quite easily by anyone with the aptitude. But it does take an understanding that the very hard, and brittle, material from which the head tips are made can be shattered easily.

~My tuppence in this case is on the connectors... Either a dry joint or the cable. The cable is easily replaced; the dry joint needs someone with a soldering iron who knows how to use it. I'm fairly confident that there will be someone at the base with the technical experience to keep this delightfully eccentric ( worthy of Sir Ranulph himself I should say) tradition alive!

At the risk of being pummeled with sarcastic and angry remarks, I'd like to add my 2 cents worth to the discussion.

Matt,

Your suggestions were spot on. Well done.

The only thing I might add is, on the SL-S600, if the video heads are completely clogged the video is muted. Attempting a manual head cleaning or cleaning tape may be in order.

Noel,

In the SL-S600 as well a many other Sony Betamax units, when the CTL head pulses are lost, both audio and video are muted. Siri wrote the audio was still functioning, so your suggestion was not plausible. Just a heads up for future reference.

Thank you from Mr.Beta....

Occam's razor being one of the sharper tools in the box... Diagnosis is an elimination game.

The machine in question has, I believe RCA/Phono connectors for both audio and video. And presumably the VCR it's feeding has similar connectors at the input? Simply swap over the Video (Yellow usually) lead with one of the audio leads at both ends; substituting the lead. It won't give you a great picture if it works but it will hopefully confirm whether the lead or the output of the Betamax is at fault.

Internally, assuming there really IS no output from the Beta machine and given your comments about propping the connector up to get an output, it's quite possible the connector has developed a 'dry joint' internally. - This will requre 're-flowing' with a soldering iron.

I'd have thought on the base one of your instrument technicians would be well-placed to help.

[quote] "We have an SL-S600, and we're routing it through a VCR and then into a receiver and then to the TV" [quote]

This sounds like a strangely convoluted set-up you have! The TV has no direct video inputs? If it has, plug the Beta straight in... A simple audio-video switcher (feed the Inst.tech enouch beer and they'll make one!) would be a far better plan than converting from Video to RF then back to video again!

Siri,

The audio head is used to pick up audio from one side of the tape and the tracking signal which locks the video waveform on the other.

It is possible that the head has become clogged and you have lost the tracking pulse so I suggest you clean the audio head and if that cures the problem. Be careful not to damage the video heads though which are in another location spinning in a drum when the machine is operating.

regards Noel

Hello all!

I'm in a unique situation and I'm wondering if I could get some advice from the group.

I'm currently working at Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station, and we have a betamax player. One of our weekly traditions has been to pull a classic from the shelves and watch it as a group. On Thursday the 12th I put in "Friday the 13th" and we got maybe 10 minutes into it before the screen went black but the audio continued. I couldn't fix the problem, so consensus was reached and we switched to the DVD "Freddy vs. Jason". I've been feeling pretty bad about letting everyone down, and I'm wondering if this may be an easy fix for us here or if we need to consider buying a "new" machine.

Specifics: We have an SL-S600, and we're routing it through a VCR and then into a receiver and then to the TV. I tried a few other tapes that had worked before and they are all doing the same thing, so I know it's not the tape itself. Last week, when we watched "Conan", the tracking was a bit off, but easily adjustable. The video out cord in the back kept losing contact so I propped it up with an extra remote which seemed to fix the picture dropping out problem. This week it didn't drop out completely, just the video, not the audio. When I tried to wiggle the video out cord, no change was noticed. So I'm really hoping it isn't an internal problem, but if it is, I'm hoping it's something that can be fixed on-site, as our inbound and outbound mail/cargo is incredibly slow. And I don't think our Betamax would take priority 1 over science equipment.

Also slow, our internet. I'll check back here when I can. Thanks in advance for any tips or tricks!

-Siri Gossman

Hello Nick Daniel. Is the take-up reel turning? Check if the digital counter is moving. The machine has a motion sensor on the take-up reel and if it isn't turning, the unit stops.

Hi

I have a Sanyo vtc5000. It fast forwards and rewinds fine, but more often than not when you press play to play a tape it will play for a couple of seconds then stop playing and I can hear it return the loose tape to the cassette. I can take the tape out and try again - it doesn't leave any tape loose in the machine, and sometimes it will play and sometimes it will do the same thing.

Is this an easily rectifiable problem?

Many thanks,

Nick

Ah! - Yes, I was driving my daughter (19)to Uni in Edinburgh when it came on.

She was quite surprised to learn that the silver-grey box that's lurked at the back of one of the living room cabinets for well over a decade (a VTC-500 that I must get round to fixing) was one of 'these things'... ;-) And that one of its 'big cousins' ( UVW-1400 ) lives in the racks of my edit suite with a close relation - the VO-7630...

After I explained to my captive audience the difference between Betamax and Betacam ( them on the radio seemed quite confused strangely)and expressed irritation at the sheer injustice of VHS having 'won' the 'formats wars' she expressed some teen-agerly concerns as to all our state of mind! ;-) For my part I was happy to admit being at times obsessive, compulsive; but rarely disorderly. And pointed out that all that old junk I collected had mostly fed, clothed and housed her these past two decades...

Suffice to say the piece stimulated conversation, caused me to investigate if the Palsite was still going, and hopefully encourages a few other folk to dig out those odd grey boxes from the loft!

Well spotted, it was actually Alan. He gave 7 radio interviews for various BBC stations regarding the Betamax tape situation.

Friday the 13th! ;-) - I'll have another go at posting!

[quote]I draft the parts in AutoCad and then export the file to a 3D print file.[/quote]

The skill to do that alone is much to be admired Roderick. - And useful! For something very rare, even if the actual printing or machining had to be farmed out... Could be the saving of a very rare machine. A catalogue of 3d-models might be a very valuable online resource.

I'm beginning to imagine things like pinch wheels made by first printing the 'core' or hub. Then using that in the centre of a simple round mould into which some polyurethene compound is poured to form the 'tyre'.

I recall many years ago ( probably about the time Palsite started!) being frustrated in my attempts to ressurect an old JVC U-Matic suite by the drive wheels which operated the loading rings. Not only had the rubber turned to chewing gum; but the cores had gone brittle; dashing any hope of giving them a 'retread'. If only we'd had 3-d printers back then!

Some day I might unearth the timelapse EIAJ machine I have had buried in a remote cupboard for over 15 years for instance - SO long and so deep I can't even recall the make/model ( I think it's a Sanyo). That, I imagine would be quite a project, and may well require some remanufacturing! - It seems possible now!

Another thought... For those rubber buttons and covers that go 'chewy' on various machines. For instance - I have a KY17 and BY10 both of which were retired about three months after visiting oil rigs ( where I was shooting corporates); 'something' in the air seemed to have attacked the rubbers! The button covers (overlying standard tactile switches) turned to something that literally looked and smelt like black Bostik!

The skilled and creative person could perhaps fashion a 3-d printed two part 'clamshell' mould into which polyurethene resin or silicone (a nice soft grade) is admitted. A little trimming with a scalpel and voila!

Martin... Was it yourself I heard on Radio Scotland the other morning? - The tale of Sony finally selling the last of the tapestock?

Roderick, I would be happy to add any 3D part model files you have to the relevant Betamax modal pages on PALsite.

My EDV 9300 on eBay now is $250

Currant price is $202, shipping could be high though

I have just had the most bizarre error message whilst trying to respond to Roderick... "Sorry your post is too old" - Really? Where did I go wrong?

I have been 3D printing parts for various machines for quite some time.

It works really well for larger gears but I have not had much success with very small parts such as the SL-C9 loading gears.

More expensive 3D printers will be able to do that, I only have a small inexpensive unit.

I draft the parts in AutoCad and then export the file to a 3D print file. It takes time but once done printing is cheap.

Matt,

Great suggestion about 3D printing plastic pieces. This should be quite useful for the recurrent failure of some gears, specially on Sony machines. However, some months ago I asked for a quotation on a local 3D printer and the price per unit was, by far, not worth investing on it.

Having said that, I am firmly convinced that costs are continuously decreasing due to the fact that these 3D machines are becoming quite popular.

I would be happy seeing these "printed" gears at a reasonable price on eBay/Amazon, for example.

Regards,

Gabriel

I suspect it would take someone au fait with the entire process... An enthusiast really. And, as former colleagues used to remind me, "there are additive manufacturing machines and additive manufacturing machines!"

I understand 3d scanners are now a feasible way of obtaining/creating the requisite models. - I suspect we're not long away from the day when we can walk into a factory unit on the local industrial estate and have many things simply reproduced; possibly with some of the weaknesses addressed.

In the meantime it would be little hardship - possibly even quite theraputic - to do a little hand finishing... I suspect many people build,feed,and water these beasts for the pleasure of doing so. They might enjoy having it do something really useful.

- Just a suggestion. :-)

I do have access to a 3D printer, for such small parts though it will probably not be accurate enough, at the very least it might need hand finishing.

What particular parts should be considered?

Does anyone know of any ready made 3D models to try?

Gentlemen...

I wonder, has anyone considered if those who enjoy the craft of '3D printing'might be able to assist in the reproduction of some of these plastic parts? As such individuals are very often also electronics enthusiasts they may well be very understanding. - I've no experience of this myself; but one of my other hobbies involved tinkering with old cars, and I've heard heard of odd bits of plastic mechanisms being reproduced this way.

Similarly, are there not model makers out there who now tinker with small CNC machies? Things can be machined from derlin or the the like. Hobbies being all abut the challenge; it might also be nice to find a synergy with others.

Dan - There is a little on your machine here - http://www.palsite.com/tech.py?model=5400tech.html A starting point at least.

Yes Martin, that part number is marked as "backordered".

I also wrote a mail to the suggested contact. She redirected me to the web page "encompass.com" which is supposed to distribute Sony (and other brands) spare parts.

I even tried to make an order and that page throws an alert saying that the minimum amount to spend is 200 USD for credit cards outside the USA, so in any case it's not quite useful for foreign countries.

With regards the gear, it is currently on backorder. Mind you AFAIR it has been in this state for a very long time. The site has also failed to load for me a number of times.

368416301 GEAR DRIVING ARM

Availability Status : Backordered

Has anyone emailed [email protected] to actually check availability?

We are really not interested in this fruitless conversation. It is to the detriment of a number of posters who are actually trying to seek assistance. Any further tit-for-tat posts will be removed.

You are close to being automatically blocked by the anti-spam system and I am getting to the stage I will not be manually unblocking.

I know this is a Europe site talking about machines that were not offered to north america but it still is a betamax site and I am in Canada

The machine I have on Ebay now is for over here (EDV -9300 EDBeta) So why cant we all get along,

Hi,

Wondering if anyone can help. I have a VTC 5400P player. It all powers up fine however it seems unable to play any tapes. When I insert a tape into the player it makes a whirring noise, as if it is trying to turn the reels of the tape, but to no avail. None of the front buttons do anything (however the LED lights above them light up) and the tape does not eject. I presume it's the motor that's gone on it, but not entirely sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers,

Dan

Jon,

But you said

"Why do I write this?

Just go to this site: https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.com/sony-part-number-368416301.aspx (Note: If this site makes you queezy, I have 25 other sites to post here for you that offer that same gear.)"

Ivan:

Here is the PDF for the great SL-2500 Sony Betamax NTSC model.

https://docs.sony.com/release/SL2500.PDF

The previous poster does not speak for me, the site or the site masters.

We help ALL Betamax owners, not just the PAL subscribers.

"Good luck in your quest" is about all everyone who had an NTSC model used to get as an answer to their questions before I stepped in.

Glad I could help.

Thanks from...Mr.Beta....

Ivan:

Is that a NTSC model as most here only own or deal with PAL models.

Good luck in your quest.

..Kevin

I want to know if anyone can send me an copy of the SL-2500 set up guide i have one VCR without the manual thank you

Noel,

It's obvious that you rarely order parts from the internet.

The site I referenced is CURRENT.

Go back to the site, once there hit the refresh symbol. The part number and price will appear.

This is all I am going to say about the subject.

As usual, whenever I give advice, whether it be about mining for Hall Sensors from discarded Sanyo players or repairing tracking controls, I am always met with sarcastic and nasty comments.

I have a host of other sites for the gear...I'll just let you do the leg work.

Thank you from...Mr.Beta...

Jon,

That was almost a useful contribution. If you can give a number of CURRENT links that WORK which can supply parts world wide that are REALLY available then that would be appreciated. That said, you have no idea of the postage costs from USA to UK of Australia. In the mean time I will continue doing a 5 minute repair that works well and only has the disadvantage of maybe increasing the load mechanism noise a tad.

(Missing here is the non-necessary need to make comment every time on what I think ANY DAY about other contributors to Palsite.)

Have a nice day!

Alan was just interviewed on BBC Radio Hereford & Worcester, lots of mentions for PALsite.com

Tune into BBC Radio 2 now, there will be piece on the Betamax tapes around 18:40:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2

Martin...yes they may have stopped offering tapes, BUT.....

Kevin, Noel, Gabriel, Steve, Roderick (who appears to have worn out his welcome here) and others:

There are a lot of detailed explanations on this site for the repair of SONY loading gear part# 3-684-163-01.

Pinning, cutting, bending, dremeling, plastic welding and a host of other "fixes" are not necessary and a complete waste of time.

We (Europe and America) do not live in Cuba where '56 Hudson automobile fuel pumps are repaired with the rubber from plungers used to clear bathroom drain clogs.

Why do I write this?

Just go to this site: https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.com/sony-part-number-368416301.aspx (Note: If this site makes you queezy, I have 25 other sites to post here for you that offer that same gear.)

For $1.33 and nominal shipping charges you can get an NOS gear that will give you another 25 years of inserting tapes into your front loader. They ship world wide...even to the Australian outback.

Before we clog this site with useless info, lets do some research and make things easier for everybody.

Life is complicated as it is, let's not exacerbate the situation with convoluted nonsense.

Thank you from Mr. Beta....

Martin,

It is amazing that they are still making tapes. Must see if I can get supplies of the cleaning tapes for a reasonable price.

cheers Noel

News in today...

Sony's announced that it's finally, finally, finally stop selling the cassettes.

http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/10/40-years-later-sony-finally-kills-betamax/

...so you have until March.

My eBay ad for my EDV -9300 is still for sale and sence we are all friends here the price needs to be at least $300

I feel that more than a fair price for it

I meant NOT everything is staying dead in that last post.

Kevin,

You are right about the throw away society but there is still satisfaction in fixing things when you can. No everything is staying dead. CDs came along then Mpeg3 which is no where near good quality audio but it is accepted pretty much by all for convenience. The funny thing that's happening now is the return to records. Mind you at around $50 each they are not cheap but I love that it's happening. Hence quality record players are also in demand. I have not looked around to see how anyone picking up an old deck manages to connect it to a new amplifier without the crystal inputs or magnetic preamps, but I have seen new record decks with (gasp) USB connectors.

cheers Noel

After I removed a capstan motor from one of my Sanyos and removed a hall sensor to repair a stalled head motor in my SL-HF300, I too waxed nostalgic.

So here are TEN of my FAVORITE SONY BETAMAX VCRs;

Since I own well over 60 Betamax VCRs now from the Original LV-1901 and

SL-7200 Sonys to the Latest SLHF-2000 and most models in between, let me tell

you which ones are my FAVORITES and why.

1. Sony LV-1901, the FIRST BETA. It's beautiful cabinet and it's still

working perfectly after 25 years of use, with never a single service call

needed for it. I use it every day.

2. Sony SL-5200 The First Beta HiFi VCR, it is beautiful in it's appearance,

sleek in it's design, and has incredible sound quality and was the first TRUE

HiFi Stereo VCR

3. Sony SLHF-T 7 "SuperBeta Theater", choice of unique colors for the

cabinet, matching set of speakers (Sony Option) for it's built in 20 watt

stereo amplifier, most elegant record level meters of ANY VCR ever, WILD

Stereo effects unit built in for Concert Hall effects.

4. SLHF-900 with B1s Upgrade, sleek, simple, first with INSERT Editing

capability, First with a Jog Shuttle, and EXCELLENT picture in B1s recording

mode.

5. SLHF-750, First with B1s recording as it came from the factory to the

USA., unique "Linear Skate" drawer that slid out while recording to check

tapes, excellent remote control, beautiful picture quality at B1s.

6. SLHF-1000, "THE KING", First with SHB-B1s recording, and a picture quality

like NOTHING ELSE it is so astonishing. A first class editor with Pre-Roll

Control T Auto Editing and 8 page Superimposed Sizable Font Character

Generator on board, and a neat little slide out spring loaded button panel.

It's truly in a Class by itself.

7. EDV-7500, ED-Beta, Excellent Picture, Excellent Freeze Frame and Special

effects that are all Digitally Assisted for Perfection, smoothest shuttle of

any Beta.

8. SLHF-650, a simple but great performer, with stunning picture quality and

a favorite "slave" machine to use for editing or dubbing as the player.

9. SLHF-2100, a MASTERPIECE in its advanced features such as the OPT-4 heads

that use separate heads optimized for Record and Playback separately by their

gap size plus a 5 stage Digital Processor to clean up the input and output

signals of this Classy 15th Anniversary Betamax with it's S-Video jacks and

SHB-B1s recording system, insert editing, dual flying erase heads, 3 inputs,

and superb performance with a picture quality that is dynamite in B1s-SHB

(Super-HiBand 6 Mhz).

10. SLHF-2000, a sleek 1990's SuperBeta VCR that does what it should smoothly

and with excellent performance for BII and BIII recording quality, Digital

auto tracking, automatic head cleaner, and Context Sensitive Color