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Hi, I looking for a power supply for a Sony SL-HF150
Can anyone help?
The only Audio I get is from a tape that has Hi-Fi from all outputs including the RF and the level meters are working.
There is no audio from the built-in Tuner or any tape that only has mono/analog sound and the level meters show nothing.
Audio inputs appear to be working.
I am just not sure which board I should be looking at yet.
JamesF - Do you get any audio from the headphone, or rear phono or scart outputs, and does the levels display show any activity?
I hope this helps you Roger Bailey I think a small gear that loads the tape might be cracked.
Thanks Mark, I am sure it is not that as there is no normal audio on the tuner, which it did have before.... before it stopped working there was crackle pops sounds. Which makes me think a transistor has failed or maybe a capacitor?. Will give it another clean and see if anything changes.
I need a repair manual for a SL-C30E Betamax recorder. Some service advice would help so I at least can access the area that has the problem. This item has not been used for years. I have discovered a cartridge is still inside the machine. The tape was fed correctly to the heads and has retracted when I pressed the eject button but the cartridge does not move vertically. The unit is obviously manufactured very well but I have no manuals at all of the machine. Please help. Cheers, Roger Bailey
JamesF - perhaps take a look at the audio head, it possibly may be in need of cleaning or de-magnetising.
Hi. I have an update on my SL-HF950. There is sound on the audio inputs, but there no audio on the RF Tuner or any tapes that does not have HI-FI sound.
Does anyone have any idea where I should look?
Hi, I have a Sony SL-HF950 which has lost audio on the turner and on normal output and input.
But it still has audio from the HI-FI when playing tapes. On the normal audio there is only some crackle pop sounds at times but that's it.
Can anyone point in the right direction to where this problem is?
Thanks Noel, it is indeed all in very nice condition cosmetically.
The small board when the motor sits needs replacing as the solder tracks are damaged.
The replacement motor I bought is not identical to the original, but tested OK with a 12v power supply.
The small nylon coupler on the motor completely split in half as well, and I have not been able to get hold of a replacement.
It's an ideal candidate for a repair for anyone who can get hold of these spares.
Anyone interested please feel free to email me.
That is a really nice looking SLHF950. Have you considered trying to get a motor and gear from an old Sony VHS machine SLV815 or SLV777 models. I think they should adapt. I have used them for repairs on the SLS2000 model super betas.
The mechanisms are different but that drive gear is quite similar. It is a common problem that gear breaking but I take the gear off, plastic weld it across the crack with a soldering iron and use a cold chissel to score a rough surface or cut running along the motor shaft so that when you super glue the gear back on there is something for it to grip to.
I got a new motor from ebay and fitted it, but then had some problems with all the small wires going to the motor / board breaking off.
I have given up on the repair and I can't get hold of the plasic gear anyway.
I've now decided to sell the machine for spares and thought of your site.
Before the motor packed in and the gear split in half it was all working well.
I have put it back together best I can (minus the plastic gear).
The tray doesn't open now and the machine is of course unusable in its present state.
It's very nice cosmetically, as is the original remote and manual.
I am in London E4 area, please contact me if you know of anyone who might be interested.
Hi Gabriel. Thanks for your quick response. I wound the loading ring back manually using the pulley, then brought the carriage up with a slim forefinger on the worm gear, so I am now in unlaced condition. After posting, I noticed that the rod holding the two tiny metal gears was not quite parallel to the front panel - the carriage is skewed. Further investigation showed that the alignment holes in the two gears which these mesh with are about 15 degrees off alignment. So it's off with the front panel, realign the carriage and try again. I'll look out for the little gear you mention. Odd that it worked fine, and has not been forced, so I shall look carefully for anything broken. The service manual gives instructions for operating the loading system with the assembly out of the machine, so I'll try that before reassembly. I'll keep you updated. Keith.
I am not sure if I have taken the whole picture regarding your issue. It seems that the machine is unable to unlace? I have read you pulled the tape manually but I get the impression the machine is still in full laced position.
If this is the case, I would blame the small loading gear underneath the pulley and belt loading assembly. In the C9, it is a tiny white gear. It is easy to disassemble and worth checking for cracks.
I think I have a couple original good condition gears of that type at home but anyway you can try glueing it for a temporary fix or even try to get a similar gear from RC spare parts (AliExpress, eBay and so forth).
I hope to be helpful.
Further to my earlier post concerning skate motor for HF950, I have purchased this 6-12v motor from eBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MABUCHI-RC-280SA-20120-DC6V-12V-9V-11300RPM-High-Speed-Small-Mini-24mm-Motor-Toy/254549731156?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Hope it works, but I still need to try and get hold of the nylon joint part no. 3696-388-01 and rubber bushing X-3696-389-1
Further to my previous post, clarification of symptoms: from a cold start, eject light is off, pressing it gives solid light and reel motor runs; then it starts to flash; pressing eject again gives solid light, then flash, but with no reel motor. Inserting a cassette produces no effect for a couple of seconds, then light flashes. There is no sign of activity from either loading motor in all of the above. When a tape was loaded, and unejectable, all other functions of the machine were normal.
I have 2 SLC9UB machines. One from new, with dead DC-DC and split plastic cogs, otherwise OK; the other I bought a couple of years ago with upgraded DC-DC and metal cogs. The latter worked fine until yesterday, when a tape wouldn't unlace and the eject light flashed. I wound the tape and cassette out via pulley, worm and occasional repowering to wind the tape into the cassette. I have the full service manual. I realise this is a complex system with switches, motors, microprocessor, mechanicals all potential culprits.
Please will someone suggest a logical order in which to fault-find. Unfortunately, the obvious first step of swapping the cassette compartment assembly between the two machines is a non-starter in terms of fixing the fault, as the older assembly is u/s, but I could put the 'newer' assembly in the older machine and get old faithful going again (without display). However I'd really rather fix the newer machine.
I was in the process of copying old tapes onto DVD RAM on my Panasonic ES-10 and thence into computer. This works really well because the ES-10 faithfully copies what it sees, noise, glitches and all, whilst all the USB video transfer gizmos stop recording or output a blank screen when they encounter noisy signals.
Thank you in advance for any help you can offer. (I have seen the post in the technical section concerning this fault, but need a place to start.)
Best wishes, Keith (Leicestershire, UK)
Hi, I am in the UK and looking for a part for my HF950.
It's the skate motor assembly M905.
Gear has split in half and motor has broken inside.
Perhaps somebody on here has a second hand or new spare they could sell me?
Does anyone have a copy of the SONY SLO1700 service manual?
I have a photocopy but I am missing information of the circuit layout for the SS27 servo board (Pg76)
If possible could someone email me a picture of that page or if possible all pages associated with SS27 servo board.
That's good to know you have already tested it.
Thanks for sharing!
The superbeta performance is achieved by changing the electronic recording and playback parameters which were selectible in three modes to better utilized higher quality tapes. As far as I know the heads are the same.
The SLS2000 has different heads but the same three selections available which made the colour change when you played back a normally recorded tape.
By moving the signals up in frequency to utilise greater bandwidth, a slightly higher line resolution achieved.
I have repaired about 5 SLHF950s using the SLHF150 heads and they seemed to work fine.
As far as I know (read at some online forum time ago), this doesn't work for VHS - SVHS because of the higher bandwidth needed.
It would be worth investigating.
OK I will email you.
For the SLHF100 you need to remove one of the magnets - you can see which one when you compare original to new.
For the SLHF950 the rewiring is tricky because the colour of the wires changes and there are fewer.
You lose the still picture 1/10 & 1/5 slow motion functions but 9 times scan and x2 work OK.
The really good thing is it returns the machine to work for all its other good features - syncro editing, APS search real time counter etc.
As for the front panel cover- I just checked and I don't have any spares left, I must have used the one I was thinking about on a recent repair.
Thanks for getting back to me.I am interested in the video heads for the HF150 and also the front flap.How much for the both items.
I am delighted you can provide both items as the unit is in mint condition and is well worth repairing.Not sure of your email address.I am at [email protected]
PS am I right in what I am saying that the heads for the 150 fit the 100.
Many thanks again.
I can assist you with new Sony SLHF150 video heads and also the front flap if you cant source either of them locally in the UK.
Send me an email if you wish to follow up.
regards Noel (Betaheaven.com) - Australia.
Hi.I was wondering if anyone has a new head disc for the Sony SL HF 100. I think the head disc for the 150 also fits by remoning the appropriate head switching magnet.Also looking for the front flap for the above model.Any help would be much appreciated.
i have received the service manual.
Hi all, I need to replace the CV001 cap. trimmer on my SL-HF100, but still can't find any suitable one on the web. Could you kindly advise? Thanks!!!
For general information,
I managed to source quantities of at least 10 each of the ICP-Nxx series fast acting semi conductor fuses I mentioned in a post below, except for the lowest rated ICP-N5. (Two ICP-N5s are used in the SLHF950s)
Sorry for the delay - I have been busy with family stuff. Sending photos of manual pages I think you need today.
I would like to know if you have received my email because I have not yet received the service manual of the slhf150. many thanks
im looking for the Sony SL-5400 or SL-5600 Betamax NTSC VCR owners manuals in english i cant find them over the internet for free if anyone have these owners manuals can anyone scan and send me these manuals to my email [email protected] please?
im looking for the Sony SL-5400 or SL-5600 Betamax NTSC VCR owners manuals in english i cant find them over the internet for free if anyone have these owners manuals can anyone scan and send me these manuals to my email [email protected] please?
Regarding my questions below.
These have been withdrawn from sale by the original supplier. (no longer available)
However, I eventually found some quantities on eBay or the N15, N20 and N25 from three different sources from China to Hong/kong.
A general question, where can I get supplies of the N series of electronic fuses used in the Sony VCRs.
I have found a UK source on eBay for N25 but not much else.
The sony models use N5, N10, N15, N20 and N25.
i've sent you an email.
Many thanks for your help.
You can email me by dropping the "nospam" from my email address or contact me through my website at Betaheaven.com and I will email you photos of the circuit and power supply check information.
These are non UK machines so unfortunately I cannot help with the manuals.
The STK IC's in Sony's can cause erratic non functions such as those you mentioned if they have gone bad. Similar situations arise in the Sanyo's models with those in the PSU.
There are some overseas users who occasionally post here who more than likely could help you out.
It's just a matter of when they see this post.
hello everybody from Italy, this is first time i wrote on this site but i follow you
from a lot of time. Just to introduce myself i have bought a Sanyo Vtc-5500p in 1981
with which I recorded all football matchs of Italy Champions of the world of the Spain Mundial in 1982.
It's a great machine with high video registration quality. I've seen that there is no page for
this machine. If required i can post the photo of the recorder.
Now i need help for another machine, the Sony sl-hf150 that goin on but
only Av on the display and no green led. There is a problem with power supply
and the stk5443 is cold.
Can someone help me with the service manual of this machine? Many thanks.
I appreciate your comments and input as always.
Rest assured on ANY Sony I work on the reel drive area is always stripped down and both spools lightly oiled and ,yes, that wear to the plastic bearing area always checked (by the space between the flywheel and coils).
Also the capstan speed remained constant ,it was just the forward direction reel that sped up after it got warm. Resulting in tape damage in certain modes.
I now have a replacement board fitted and all issues gone. It's been way too long for this one.
I have another of the same (SS28) where there is no reel drive at all. All other areas OK.
Thanks again for your input and also to Clive for the deal for this 100% working one.
Whilst I've not come across that exactly I have seen one where someone had replaced the entire drum assembly from an early VTC 5000 and the head activation was a tad too slow when pressing PLAY. The result being a slight delay in picture pick up at the start. This and other parameters are not compatible with the NX100. The same as a 'M' series capstan will not work either and the pinch roller that later model is a tad smaller than on other earlier ones too.I have also seen a few NX100 's with worn heads. Which is normally not an issue with Sanyo models.
If the Reel motor is noisy too then obviously it's a high mileage machine.
One way to tell on that model if it's seen high use is, look at the two raised strips on the cassette hatch flap at the bottom. If a lot of the black paint is worn off it's seen a lot of use.
AS for your original issue. I would check the caps in the PSU. Also make sure the head drum bearings are not too tight or have been fiddled with in order to quieten them down instead of lubing them.
Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me with a Sanyo VTC-NX100?
All functions seem to work, but when Play is engaged, the tape laces but the drum is slow to pick up speed. The microprocessor then locks up, requiring the mains power to be cycled. I've seen this on two of these now, and was wondering if anyone has seen similar. Regards.
Your email prompted me to remember that the reel motors on the front load Sonys can all suffer the sort of problems documented on the SLHF950 chassis repair information.
The spindle pivot for the magnetic shaft wears and the magnet eventually closes the gap to the winding and then runs the insulation off and spreads copper between adjacent winding shorting out the particular coil.
You mentioned that you think its the control board but that might only be the symptom caused by the increased motor drive current requirements.
Back to what you said - It speeds up when it gets warm - but that does not happen with the above condition. The capstan motor keeps the speed constant so you should only be noticing and increase in forward tension, not the machine speeding up.
I spent hours fixing such a fault once and it was due to a leaking transistor which tested OK but failed intermittently in operation due to heat related excessive Icbe current.
Use some coolant spray on the transistors in that part of the control circuit to track down which one if that is what the cause is.
BUT REALLY - neither explains exactly why reduction in forward tension (a reel function) allows the speed of the capstan to reduce. Are you sure the capstan roller is holding the tape hard against the capstan shaft?
SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT!
The SS11 board IC001 and IC004 ICs are 8 pin containing twin two input OP amps used to buffer the Fg control pulses for the reel motors which as you know are DC controlled in the SLC9 model.
So when they have issues loss of proper pickup or back tension reel control results.
Thanks for the detailed info as always.
I should've mentioned the back tension too (as I usually do) and had a feeling the azimuth wouldn't be the culprit there but worth mentioning all the same.
As for that Reel drive torque issue. You state you've never seen that well I have two issues here on different HF100 servo boards. One with the one I mentioned previously and the other the reel spools don't turn at all. So no doubt a similar condition. The rest of the machine ahs been checked with a good board and all works fine.
I have checked and changed many components /transistors, e.t.c to no avail.
It's been one of those issues that n matter what it does'nt want to reveal itself after many frustrating hours. (Thankfully that doesn't occur too often eh!)
I do now have access to another good board and will be glad to see this one returned to the recipient in 100% order :)
I appreciate, as always, the input from you though.
What is the type of failure that occurs?
The SONY SLC9 capacitor leakage issue/corrosion issue was at/under IC001 and IC004 on the SS11 board.
Where or board are the failing op amps on the C9 ? ?
Clive (and Kevin)
After head clean rules out dirty heads there are other things to consider.
1/ The azimuth would not be the issue here because it does not affect a machine recording and playing back to itself - just the use of tapes from other machines which you said was good - though it does affect the higher frequency level/response more.
2/ The first thing that is an issue on all SLHF100 and later front loader machines is loss of back tension spring tension. Typically they can drop back to below 30gm when the factory setting is 35gm. I mostly find that breaking the green glue seal and moving the spring to its most rearward step on the saw tooth lever of the black back tension arm (which you view through a hole) gives you back the correct setting, Be careful not to let go of the spring or you will hve to pull out the reel assembly to put it back. Use nail polish to fix it in place at the new position. A back tension test tape is useful but most people don't have them
3/ Record bias level issues. This is not common but the transformer can fail. If total failure happens then you also lose erase of the previous recordings which you would notice for both picture and sound.
A lower level bias will affect the quality and level of recorded audio from this machine. If the record level settings on this machine have been fiddled with that might also be your issue.
A service manual alignment would be the only way to be sure.
4/ Usually it is go/no-go issue but check the tracks on the AV connectors on the base board to ensure they have not been damaged. The board often breaks there because people lift the front of the machine while connectors are still poking out at the back.
Kevin - Re that problem with the reel motor pickup torque - I have never noticed that happening on any SLHF100s I have repaired. The OP amps on the board can have contamination affecting their inputs from leaking capacitors which I have seen as an issue on SLC9s and I have seen that affect the pulse width circuitry.
Congrats on getting your HF100 back to perfect.
They can pose tricky at times with various problems they throw up after time.
AS for the Low mono edge sound. That too is common and the mono sound on these was never that great (maybe comparing to the beta Hi-Fi makes it worse).
It could be the stationary audio head but on a few later Sanyo's issues there with recording was down to the controlling IC.
I believe it is adjustable on the Hf100 (it's on the very top board under a sliver can.It could also be that head azimuth is slightly out too. Be careful though as moving that will put out the tracking alignment a bit.
Clean that head too, to be sure it's not dirt contaminated.
I have a HF100 here in near perfect shape bar one area on the servo board affecting the reel spool torque.
It speeds up when the machine get's warm and if you turn down the torque ,when using from cold it won't turn at all.
You don't have a spare good servo (SS) board for that model do you?
It's been a while since my last post. My SL-HF100 was only working in black and white. Eventually I sourced another donor machine and swapped the problem board over, colour restored!
It now leaves me with a couple of spares machines 2 Hf100s and a C20. I've been seeing if I can make another running machine.
The C20 has given up the cassette carriage, loading gear and drum motor.
I've got an HF100 running quite well, colour picture and HiFi audio working OK, however the edge track audio is really quiet on its own recordings. Recordings made on other machines play back loud and clear.
Is it likely to be the head or is the audio recording level adjustable?
Nice work. I just received a couple of Arduinos from eBay to learn with. (About time - all the stuff I build is hardware based logic.)
Dear Palsite friends,
Just wanted to share with you all a new development based on Arduino. This time, a remaining tape indicator (as the one found on the SL-C9 ) is implemented on an LCD display.
Testing machine is again my SL-C20, with slight modifications for this purpose.
Here's a link of a video I recorded today:
I hope you like it.
The sort of tape issue you indicated originally is sometimes due to corrosion or contamination on one part of the head drum assembly causing the tape to lift a little away from the heads at that point decreasing the magnetic coupling causing drop-outs.
Yes you have probably damaged the heads. Try the play then pause function to see if you get any picture. A dirty ACE assembly causing loss of the tracking pulse can cause loss of picture but it still comes up using pause function.
If you have damaged the heads it should be observed by inspecting the heads with a magnifying glass to see they are broken.
Video head cleaning is a delicate art. Yes - getting replacement heads is difficult if not unlikely as the machines are nearly 40 years old.
Hope everybody is going well with the though time we have…
I used my lockdown time to record the hold Betamax tape I have.
I have a Betamax SL-F1F coupled with a TT-F1F.
The video was quite noisy almost at the same position for all tapes, so I decided to try to clean the video heads.
Unfortunatly, since this operation there is no more video at the output of the SL-F1F.
The sound is playing with no problem, but the screen remains black.
Do you have an idea of where the issue could come from ?
Do I have broken the heads ?
Can we found a repair center or some replacement part for this kind of material.
Thanks for your support and so detailed website.
May I have seen it before….
I could send you one but it would cost a bit in postage from Australia and it would not get there quickly in the current circumstances.
Has anyone got the white plastic rewind idler arm for a Sony C7 for sale please?
That's a good insight. However, I don't get the whole picture with only one picture of the schematics (if you have the complete manual, feel free to send it to me). Anyway, a first approach would be:
-We will ignore any drum speed change (and we shouldn't!) so there is a high chance that the result is going to be a jumpy out-of-sync image.
-How is reacting this machine when you press FWD/REW while you keep pressed Play? This behavior is important.
-We need to see if pushing the buttons create a High or Low level to the uC.
-The Arduino would be in charge of:
*Suppress the FWD/REW signals towards the uC unless a genuine "only" FWD/REW condition is met (machine will operate normally)
*Detect a combination of Play+FWD or Play+REW (logical --> Play AND Fwd OR Play AND Rew)
*Make the capstan rotate quicker and this is not easy as the capstan is servo locked. Instead of applying brute force (directly applying more bias/voltage to its analog control signal) we can take advantage of the servo itself by modifying the CTL signal to be at a lower frequency. This should be done at the point where it has been previously amplified (TTL compatible wave). A single divide-by-four or similar has to be implemented on this signal. We don't already know the catching range of the capstan servo, so this might work or not (because if an out-of-range output/clipping signal is detected, the machine will tend to shut down).
*Check for a complementary unused "Reverse" signal in your capstan. Probably it is there, forced to a fixed logical level high or low as that model (in theory) only rotates the capstan in one direction, unless it is used for an extra function (drive the reel via belt?).
*Apply slightly more torque to the reel motor (if existing). We might implement this with some hybrid analog arrangement. I recall the torque modification on the VTC5000 with a diode so we should follow a similar strategy.
*Audio muting signal has to be observed, if active high or low. We also have to manipulate this signal the same as the FWD/REW so we might need external pullup/pulldown resistors and a dedicated I/O from the Arduino.
It is an interesting beautiful project but I would strongly advise not to modify things unless you know what you are touching. Chances of short circuits, overloads and magic smoke increase as we modify stuff.
The only thing I can remotely do for you is writing some code. But bear in mind this is a looong iteration hit-and-miss cycle.
Yes. I was talking about adding that feature to a machine that doesn't have it. My VTC 5350 keeps the tape always laced, even during fast forward and rewind. So I guess it's only a matter of speeding up the capstan and reel motors and muting the audio to enter the CUE mode. Strangely enough, the schematics for the VTC 5300 clearly mention the CUE and REV functions in the syscon board schematic. There are a few missing connectors on the board however there are still markings for them (S13, S14 and S15). So I guess the same board was used in the 5400 with just the additional connectors for the additional CUE/REV and audio dubbing functions? Have a look at the pictures.
If I have correctly understood: you suggest adding picture search (CUE/REV) to a machine not previously having it from factory.
I am not an expert on that series of Sanyos but it seems to be quite tricky because of the following facts:
-These additional functions are some "intermediate" speeds between normal playback and FFWD/REW. The challenge is entering the machine into a new state with a given mechanical arrangement.
-The arrangement for REV/CUE is being laced, pinch roller applied to tape. Capstan should run to a defined speed (both forward and reverse!) and the servo should lock to that condition. So at least the servo IC (and its reference signals) have to be involved.
-Reel operation has to be readjusted, but this would be the easiest point (slippage "clutch" of the take up spool allows some tolerance).
-Muting circuits should also be revised as the machine by default mutes audio and video when FFWD/REW (I've done funny experiments in the past playing with Sonys muting signals).
There might be more factors constraining this modification so I don't see it feasible given a reasonable budget of time and effort.
That's very interesting. I have a Sanyo VTC 5350 (PAL+SECAM 5300) which doesn't have picture search like the 5400. Is it possible to create a similar mod that would enable picture search when pressing the FF and REW buttons during PLAY mode instead of going into full FF/REW like the 5400 does? It has an LM6402A IC on the syscon board.
Thanks for your comments!
Indeed, what the Arduino is doing is rather simple: it cheats the machine into thinking it is always threaded (end thread switch). Once you have this signal under Arduino's control, you can operate the loading motor for a defined amount of time (you can fix it by software or make it externally adjustable with a tiny mod).
The amount of unthread is critical because if you apply too much, you lose track of the begin tape sensor. This is dangerous as you can miss the begin section and break/stretch a tape.
I think that altering the syscon code is a major challenge. These ICs used to be mask ROM so they can't be changed. One funny approach would be swapping the whole IC with a custom programmed one :-)
The SL-C20 shown on YouTube was not really bad in terms of drum wear but at the time of recording it was the only available one I had at home. Badly worn ones would benefit most from this experiment.
I am thinking in a new mod. Not sure it will work but if I succeed I will also make it public in this forum.
I just watched your videos. Amazing work! Nice experiments. The partly-unlaced rewind function really does help with worn head drums. Does the Arduino hook up directly to the Beta's syscon board and modify the code of the main IC in some way? I am curious...
Dear Betamax community friends,
I am proud to share with you some experiments done on a basic but popular machine such as the Sony SL-C20. They are preliminary implementations based on Arduino.
First example is a trick for improving tape rewinding speed in machines with high mileage and worn drum assembly, causing excessive tape friction. It is a midway solution towards the Sanyo method (tape unlace during high speed transports):
Second example is the implementation of a real time counter in format hh:mm:ss instead of the classic 0000 - 9999 counter. Popular Hd44780 LCD display was used. Note that the counter is also able to count negative, show transport mode and light eight leds according to tape speed and direction:
This third example is just a simple, quick check of the counter accuracy. It's only a basic check as the precision comes from the machine originally recording the tape:
I hope you like these small experiments. Being at home for long periods is bringing me funny ideas.
Greetings from Spain,
Thanks! that's high praise indeed.
Could'nt have put it better myself :)
The terms used are actually back tension and forward tension. They relate to the pressure applied to the tape from the supply reel (back tension) and the take up reel (forward tension)
The capstan shafts rotational speed sets the right speed that the tape moves at in the first place. Too much back tension increases head wear.
Having the right back tension, ensures that the tape holds in position to be read by the spinning video heads as it travels over the guides that set it to travel diagonally around the video head drum assembly.
Back Tension is most often done in video machines by mechanical means such as a felt belt under tension by a spring lever arm which causes friction against the side of the supply reel mounting spindle.
For Forward Tension a similar principle supplies slippage to the drive of the forward reels mounting spindle.
What makes the Sony SLC9 special is that the both reels are controlled by steeper motors and both drive and braking resistance are managed electronically.
I hope that helps.
Hello, it is not very clear to me what is the rear tension, and what is the front tension.
Where is the tension measured?
The last comment about cancellations during playback of the audio sweep is for when these linear stereo test tapes are played back on a mono player or stereo HiFi using the mono track.
The text below should read path alignment not patch. Before all that I clean the video and audio heads of course.
I will now email you pictures of selected pages from the Sanyo VTC M40 service and operating principles manuals
The meter I most use is a KONIG Cassette-Torque-Meter DMC 100 1 Beta. In the kit I only have the SL0003 and the SL0004.
I use a four channel oscilloscope (A Tek 7603 with two two channel plugins) which allows me to see the video waveform at the same time as I observe left and right channel audio.
The sony C9 manual treats alignment of both separately but I do it all at once.
You are correct that azimuth affect video and audio which is why I made special test tapes with different tone options and a test pattern.
I used a TTi TG230 2MHz Sweep/Function generator set up to sweep the audio range 100Hz to 10kHz (probably maximum 8kHz) at 25 times a second.
This allows me to observe the audio response of both channels at the same time as I observe the A/B wave forms from the video heads.
You are correct about the Capstan roller so I fix the first and do a patch alignment for best video first (assuming the azimuth and two other adjustments on the ACE have not been fiddled with).
I don't touch those adjustments unless I need to. The tape must be observed at the exit point to see that there is no tape curl.
A quick check of the tape staying flat during review and preview modes first is good as this checks capstan roller and capstan perpendicular alignment.
Best response is usually obtained using video drum exit guide (ACE entry guide) to flat top video exit waveform, then ACE exit guide to peak highest frequency response and get equal left right audio level.
I usually check the left and right channel level and phase by using a 3kHz or higher tone and overlaying the two wave forms. (channels observed using chop mode not alternative)
I hope that not too confusing.
The audio sweep shows cancellations at some frequencies if the azimuth is out.
Thanks a lot for reporting your experience regarding tape tension among different machines.
One remark is that the original Sony SL-0003C tape also allows for simultaneous readings on both back and forward tape tension (I have them three: the SL0003, SL0003C and SL0004).
The C9 is a very special special machine. The fact you measure phase difference on L and R channels is smart and quite interesting. Are you using a scope for that (2ch + lissajous pattern) or use a more specific device such as an audio analizer?
There is also a concern I have while servicing machines and adjusting azimuths, tilts, heights and guides: sometimes you are altering the factory alignment, which is normally the best "balanced" one. The element to blame for these adjustments is mostly a worn pinch roller. Do you agree with this or are there any other factors behind that? (Consider you are not replacing any mechanical element).
Not to mention the previously fiddled "hit and miss" attempts from people with no knowledge or means for that... A nightmare to adjust betas.
I agree about head wear but 35gm is a safe setting for normal Sony mono machines ( SLC30, 34, 35 etc) and I find most need to be adjusted up to 35 from about 25 to 30gm as the spring has lost tension over time.
The tape tension gauge I am using is an aftermarket one. I do have a SONY set of gauges but have not used those because mine measures forward and back tension at the same time.
Given that the linear stereo machines ar only using a third of the tape surface that a mono machine uses I think the tension has to be optimum. Definitely higher.
You can also notice tape wear(condition) by a drop of in sound in the right channel (I think it was) from tape damage or stretching as that track sits at the edge of the tape.
The back tension for the C9 is 45-48gm .I try to set the ones I work on to the lower spec. For obvious reasons(head life).
If no tape guage then that is a unique way to see.
I also didn't find the cassette tray obscured everything on the Slc0003 gauge just some.
The SLHF950 is 40 -48gm.
The rest seem to be 31 - 35gm.
Kevin and Webber,
Some information which may help.
My tape cassette with the back tension meter in it cant be read while in the SLC9 but back tension for the SLF1 is the same high 45gm versus 35gm for normal machines so I developed other ways to set it.
I have noticed that the back tension setting on the SLC9 whilst critical, can best be judged by its effect on wow and flutter and also the frequency response and level of the sound.
I have test tapes with both a full swept audio frequency response which I can observe on a CRO and also section with just 1kHz tone.
(On an SLC9 I use the 1kHz tones to determine correct azimuth alignment by checking the phase of the tone in each channel is the same and also that their levels are similar.)
With swept frequencies or the 1kHz tone - If you have too little back tension the high frequencies drop off first, then the overall level.
With the 1kHz tone - If you start to get the tension too high you get increased wow and flutter. Far too much tension causes picture issues as well as the tape tends to pull off its correct path on the guides whilst going diagonally around the video heads.
You really need the back /forward tape tension cassette to get that setting perfect. Only THEN will you know for sure if that is causing your current issues.
The Sony breed are very particular with these settings, especially on the C9.
With a tape in play mode, I have turned the RV002 potentiometer in both directions of rotation, on the one hand, the tape increases in tension, turning the potentiometer in another direction, the tape loses tension.
But unfortunately the image on the TV screen is still black.
The counter does not work in play mode, and in Rec mode it does not work.
The rest of the functions are correct, just like previous weeks.
Thanks a lot both of you for offering me the scans for Sanyo M40. Incidentally, I was finally able to find some schematics which, with some patience will show me a clue. At least, now I know the test points locations and their related signals. My guess points out towards some chroma modulation subcircuit in the record signal path as it -seems to- be stucked at a particular frequency (grey). But this could be due to one million reasons. This beaty will need some hours of testing, oscilloscope and care.
Side note about Sanyos: I was recently working on a VTC-M20 from a customer and I was amazed the good picture this machine was giving just by cleaning the tape path and adjusting a bit the dropout compensator after changing all the belts. Even with factory capacitors the image was superb. I didn't remember these M series were so good.
Talking about the lockdown: here in Spain we are facing serious problems. We are suposed to be quarantined at home during one full month. You can only go out for some very specific reasons and the police are continuously controlling people's moves. Sad but necessary. This is a good time for reading and pleasing activities at home. Not many testing tools at home so I will only spend some time with basic checks.
All my best wishes for all you and your families. Please take lots of care and, as always, stay tuned.
Yes I have to MINT condition VTC M40 's in black for my own light use for any beta hi-Fi tapes and the odd recording too.
I have never seen that issue. I did sort one out for a guy that had black and white playback and tuned out to be a crystal that was faulty. Took some finding too.
You won't cure that with any of the settings or switches on the front.
I do have the service manual for this model but not in PDF.
I could scan a few pages and send them to you if you like.
What areas did you require as these later manuals were not as detailed as say the VTC 5000 and 6500 ones were which is a shame.
Things are not too bad in the area of Suffolk where I live and as well as my normal job outside (which has'nt been affected ) I am still repairing and servicing beta and VHS with the odd V2000,Umatic and Betacam for others.
learning new things as I go.
So this 'lock down' hasn't really affected me at all. My family are also not too affected either which is a relief.
I hope others who post here and their families hav'nt been badly affected either?
Those scan pictures would be very welcome indeed! Many thanks.
My email is now showing if you click on my name.
How are you and your family holding up with the situation going on in UK? Still fixing machines?
It seems to me that those with a home hobby might be better placed for boring wait of self imposed isolation.
For some - what better time to do digital transfers of VHS and Beta tapes.
I for one never seem to get around to that.
I have photographed the exploded parts diagrams for both and the numbers are similar but slightly different - though they look the same except I notice the head motor of the C6 does not have shielding wrapped around it.
I have service manuals and circuits for the Sanyo VTC40 and VTC50 models but I would not know where to start with the problem you have indicated.
Either of you can email me if you want pictures sent.
New and different message for Sanyo experts out there:
Just servicing a beautiful Sanyo VTC-M40 in really good aesthetic condition. Everything is now running fine, with crisp image and nice HiFi sound in playback.
But I have a problem in recording I had never come across: while HiFi recording is perfect, picture is not. What I get in subsequent playback is only a full uniform grey image (with proper sound). So I am not pretty sure the machine is switching to some default setting for editing or things like that. I have tried different setting combinations of front levers and switches with same result.
It is a pity there is no service manual available online for this Betacord. If so, I would have a more clear clue on what's going on inside this little beast.
Any help is always welcome.
Very clever trick. I think I got the whole picture with your detailed explanation, but it would also be greater if Martin can upload the pictures and additional info you provided.
As per the mechanism controller, yes, I remember you told me about that some years ago via email. This has to be interesting to see in action.
For this kind of equivalences it is always good to keep an eye to the service manuals and see if part numbers are the same. Other than that, it is advisable not to modify stuff and connectors unless you are pretty sure you know what you are doing. I have see some "magic smoke" coming while doing things like that.
Just a quick question. Is the entire video head drum assembly including the motor a straight swap from a C6mk1 to a C7 please?
I'm trying not to take both machines apart just to see if they are compatible.
Heat is involved in the conversion process but the intention is to apply the minimum heat necessary to do the job.
You don't want damage to the gear teeth, distortion of the gear or modifications which will lead to it splitting.
The shaft is not directly heated at all. If that technique were used the gear would be out of round in operation and probably lose mesh.
I tried a number of ways to hold the gear in place but they were messy and some involved drilling the shaft ends even to lock the gear.
The big issue was how to center the gear on the 2.5mm round hole of the gear on the D shaft.
The various techniques I tried, had to fill the gap to make the D shaft round, but in such a way that the gear was locked.
I wanted to avoid just gluing them on because that makes the machine difficult to service later if you get issues.
Eventually I had a brainwave. Make a small metal shim and melt that into the hole against the flat surface of the D shaft.
The metal shields used in many of the beta machines are a perfect source to make the shims out of using tin snips. (It tests your eyesight though)
I have sent the details and lots of pictures of the process to Martin Evans so that he can create a repair page on Betamax Palsite for this.
Like you I have a few spare metal gears but overall I have a lot of machines waiting for repair which have the issue of broken load gears.
One big advantage I have in repairing these is I made a black box controller for the load mechanisms over 10 years ago that can monitor the load mechanism.
It has a normal mode to look at the SLC9 in operation and a slave mode which takes over control if you want to control the mechanism remotely or even out of the machine.
Well done. It is nowadays easier to find replacement gears with the help of AliExpress and similars. Just curiosity: do you apply heat to the shaft and melt the gear with that size? I usually keep some original metal ones for my repairs but at some point I will run out of them.
By the way, the price you have set is quite fair and competitive.
I have developed a method of creating replacement load gears for the Sony SL-C9 and variants. (SLO430 etc.)
It turns out that the same gear used in repairs for the SL-HF100 load gear works in this application as well.
Details of how to make these yourself may be placed on this site under repairs in the future.
But then again you have to get bulk gears in the first place to do that which is hardly worth it for one machine, so I have listed these in pairs on eBay.
regards Noel (Betaheaven.com) Australia.
I can help you with the wire loom connections for the C9 through pictures of a "complete" unit and or copies of service manual information.
Just email me back without the nospam in my email address.
cheers Noel (Betaheaven.com)
To the previous poster. NICE list of multi-system machines.
Hi John. Here's a list of multi system Beta VCRs:
SL-T7ME /MER (NTSC 4.43 only, βII speed only)
SL-T9ME/MER (NTSC 4.43 only, βII and βIII)
SL-T30ME /SL-K85 (NTSC 4.43 only, βII and βIII)
SL-T50ME /SL-K95 (Both NTSC 3.58 and 4.43)
SL-500ME (I think NTSC 4.43 only but correct me if I'm wrong)
SL-700ME (Both NTSC 3.58 and 4.43)
SL-800ME (Both NTSC 3.58 and 4.43)
VTC-R4ME (Both NTSC 3.58 and 4.43)
VTC 9450 (Exact clone of the Sony SL-T7ME, so NTSC 4.43 and βII only)
VTC 9455 (NTSC 4.43 and βII speed only)
V53-TRK (NTSC 4.43 only, not sure about playback speeds)
V-5480 (NTSC 4.43 only, I think βII only)
V-9680 (NTSC 4.43 only, I think βII only)
Video 7 (Exact clone of the SL-T7ME, so NTSC 4.43 and βII only)
Hope this helps. :)
I managed to get hold of a Sony SL-C9E VCR. Unfortunately the previous owner attempted some cleaning and/or repairs to the machine, and disconnected a large number of the internal wire bundle connectors/plugs to circuit boards. I have managed to sort out and reconnect most of the connectors/plugs.
I'm now left with a few plugs that I could not yet find where they should go, as well as a few empty sockets that I could find wires for.
I understand that the above description is quite vague and am more than willing to provide more information - if I know what information to provide.
I would really like to get the machine operational as I have quite a number of Beta tapes that contain very precious family memories that I want to transfer to DVD.
Hi, can anyone provide me with a list of make (preferably Sony) & models of Betamax players that can play both formats of Betamax tapes (NTSC & PAL)? (Betamax Player Dual Format - NTSC & PAL)
Great, if you come across that fault on the HF150, it will be finally interesting to know the root of the problem.
As per the Toshibas, yes I agree they seem more rudimentary in general. Anyway, I also like to work on different machines other than Sonys or Sanyos. Even the vintage VHS are fun to service!
Regarding the link on that SuperBeta SL-S3000: well spotted, it is a rare and overall nice machine but lacks hifi sound. Very little info is available about them on the net. All I know is that they belong to the latest models developed by Sony (sure when they were already aware the format battle was lost). Most probably chassis 711B3 which I don't personally like because it's more fragile than the old ones: mode switch and loading mechanism prone to failures. There was also a variant with no reel motor, it was just driven from the capstan via toothed belt. In Spain, the exact equivalent to that beta was the SL-F75. I have serviced that video in the past but I have no images of it and right now there are no available ones while googling them. I am sure it was seldom sold by that time.
Nice suggestion, I never thought of that. The machine I was repairing is gone but I still have the faulty board that I can check in another machine. I will let you know if it turns out to be the problem.
I am fixing Toshiba V33A models at the moment. I like the Sanyo and Sony models more. These are so primitive by comparison.
Just got given a link to this machine on eBay. I didn't even know they existed!!! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sony-Super-Betamax-SL-S3000-RARE-Video-Cassette-Recorder-Pal/153833480135?hash=item23d1309fc7:g:E5gAAOSwOFFeR63v
Have you checked the cristals/resonators on your suspected board? Or any reset/power fail subcircuit? These two issues might prevent any microprocessor to run.
I have seen that fault on some VHS machines but never in the HF150.
Please let us know your progress.
Thanks for the input. No I have seen that happen with a damaged front panel board before. In this case the signal is getting to the servo board and it is communicating with the tuner board which latches to give a "lock power up" control to the timer board but that board (IC301?) is not giving the power up signal (which is actually is a 0 voltage coming down from 5V signal to the power supply) to enable the "switched" voltages.
Changing over the timer module for a spare cures the problem so I will have to analyse further to see if i can be sure its the IC and not another issue on the board.
I did find out that the N5 fuse in the power supply when it blows causes loss of the -10V rail which takes out the VU display. I have seen that on two machines now.
Might sound obvious but is the area around the ON button OK? No cracks /dry joints.
The PSU voltage regulator is usually the culprit but you've checked that over.
Does anyone have experience with repairs on the Sony model SLHF150 when it does not respond to turn on? The supply regulator is good and the issue seems to be in the display/timer assembly. The clock display is also on.
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